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Brand new SA20 Turkey Thug fails to cycle

MarinecoatMarine

MarinecoatMarine

.270 WIN
After reading several threads here about various cycling problems ,I was all set to send the gun back to Mossberg for fixing . But before I even put a shell in the gun ,I added the Choate 8 shot extender.
After getting it all back together , to my dismay ...... it wont manually cycle any shell I put in it .
I have zero experience with a semi-auto shotgun so not sure what is what .
I can tell you loading the mag takes a really lot of force to get the shell to go in -hurts my thumb pretty bad and seems like it takes WAY to much power to push them in .
Then when I try to manually cycle low brass, high brass , slugs, 3" shells,etc. , none of them even get close to getting in the barrel .
My biggest problem is that now after I ground off that lip to put on the mag. tube extension I suspect Mossberg will say I voided my guarantee by modifying the gun .
It's my own stupid fault for not testing the guns cycling ability right out of the box - but I naively assumed a brand new gun would function properly . What would you do ?
 
I do not have the Turkey Thug. Bobster does, hopefully he will chime in too.
I assume the actions are the same and just the barrels and the cosmetics are different.
First of all, get some 20 ga snap caps. do not test the cycling with live ammo unless you don't mind an accidental discharge.
Secondly I would assume you can still put the stock parts back in even with the lip ground out and try that to see if it's better.
Before any testing, does anything look broken, very loose or missing?

If everything looks good, go to the range and try firing some 1 oz (not 7/8 oz) high brass bird shot like a #6 and see if it cycles. My suggestion is load only 1 round the first shot, through the port and see if it ejects, then try 2 (one in the ejection port, close the bolt and put 1 in the magazine) and see if it chambers the round from the magazine . Safety first.

What is not happening? If you open the bolt and load a round (snap cap) from the ejection port (not from the magazine) and close the bolt, does it chamber the round every time? Most times or not so much?
If this is failing to work it is likely a problem with the lifter ( called elevator by some) being bent or twisted or not moving at all. It will have to be replaced or corrected by Mossberg. They replaced my entire trigger group.

If the rounds are chambering but not extracting, different story. I had an issue with the extractor hook not moving towards the shell enough to keep it against the side of the action and pull it out to eject. The shell would just drop down into the lower part of the action, sometimes on top of the next round. This took a little disassembly and filing because the gun worked fine firing but would not manually cycle anything. this would also be a Mossberg item as it involves the bolt.

Keep us in the loop.
 
Brian ,
Thanks for your comments - I do have some snap caps and will try them . From the ejection port I can not get a round in the chamber period - the "lifter" you describe looks slightly bent or more correctly "twisted" .....just a little ,but defiantly noticeable .
I could restore the mag tube to orig. , but I am almost positive that change had nothing to do with the gun malfunctioning .
You point out more then likely the trigger group will have to be replcd/corrected by Mossberg ; that would be great , even if they charged me .
Could a gunsmith fix this ?
 
The trigger group comes out with a single pin through the action. Believe it or not, I use a chopstick (yes Chinese food type) as a drift pin to drive the pin out of the action without scratching anything. There is a video here somewhere I will try to find it. The trigger group should be removed occasionally to be cleaned and lubricated anyway. The problem might be with Mossberg sending out a part. Not the warranty issue but they usually want the whole gun back to replace a part. probably liability or something. Mine had some frequent flier miles on it.
The mag tube mods should not have any affect at all on the action unless the spring or follower was not in right. hard to do. By the way, I used the factory aluminum follower, not the orange Choate unit. It worked easier for me.

There is also a pin in the trigger group that holds the lifter in place. Someone had a picture here where the lifter came off the pin on 1 side but it was also VERY bent.
 
The video is in the last post in the "Cleaning the SA-20 for the First Time" thread here in the SA-20 forum. I think it is in Turkish so I just leave the sound off but it shows the dis-assembly very well.
There are springs in the trigger group but normally there is no issue, it comes out in 1 piece. If something is broken or out of line they might shoot out. hold a rag over it on a table to catch any parts.

Post some pics if you take it apart. If you are not sure, take it to a gunsmith and have him show you how to take apart. Modifying the mag tube you were way braver than me. I had it apart many times before I filed the lip out.
 
I used the factory aluminum follower, not the orange Choate unit.

I did the same , followed the step by step post by that feller that has Mr. Putin as his avitar !
I will check out all the videos I can lay eyes on and go from there ........one other thing of note :
there's no way in hell I should have to apply so much force to get the shells loaded in the mag tube .
Something is not right in that area also . Thanks again for your comments
 
When you take the spring and follower out of the mag tube does it move in and out easily? there should be no tension and the follower and spring should move in and out of the tube easily.
One question, did you cut the spring that came from choate? It has to be shortened a couple of inches but it should be done 1 or 2 coils at a time just until 7 - 2 3/4 inch rounds fit in. If the spring is too long there will be too much spring tension. all the time and will get worse as more shells are added.
 
Brian ,

I did cut the spring , and the spring and follower are floating freely . I know it might seem that the problem is in that area , but I can assure you that is not causing any of my troubles .
The very first shell I put in the mag. tube go's in hard -way too hard . I think that trouble is separate from the lifter problem , but they might be related . The trigger group I think is independent of the mag and follower . I reckon I need to get ahold of Mossberg and see what they say my options are .
 
You are correct. the mag problems should be completely unrelated. The only thing I can think of is the shell catch. The piece that stops the shell from coming out of the mag until it is released. I don't know what the real name is. A lot of people including me had issues with the bolt release button being hard to press and not moving easily. the same spring allows the shell catch to move back and release a shell out of the mag into the action. If that piece is not moving or has too much spring pressure, it would make is very hard to push in a shell as the catch would partially block the tube opening. Not actually a mag problem.
Just as a test, with no shell, try pressing the bolt release button down hard and see if the shell catch moves out of the way as if you were unloading the mag. Then with a shell, press the button down hard when you try to insert a shell and see if it is easier. Might be an issue of spring tension or a sticky linkage. I have had trouble with mine being too hard to press when I had to unload the magazine. Worth a try.
 
Just as a test, with no shell, try pressing the bolt release button down hard and see if the shell catch moves out of the way as if you were unloading the mag. Then with a shell, press the button down hard when you try to insert a shell and see if it is easier.

Brian ,

you sure do get a " A " in your effort to help me out -thanks again !
The shell release button is fairly easy to press and seems to function well , with the shell catch latch moving completely out of the way . The bolt release button functions as well .
I found myself pressing the shell catch every time I tried to load a shell in the mag tube as without doing so it's even harder to shove the shell in . I'm not kidding , I have to push the shells so hard that when they finally slide in ,it about rips my thumbnail off !
And thank you too Bobster- I followed your post step by step when doing my tube extension .
 
Sorry I can't help, I'm lost on this one. sounds like a trip to Mossberg is in order.
Let us know what happens. Good luck.
 
If you wrote Mossberg using the "contact us" feature on their website, the average wait for a reply is about two weeks...
 
I think it's just the nature of the beast.

If you call in, you get to speak with someone right away and they start a work order or claim report. If you send an e-mail to their contact page on the website, you get put in line behind who knows how many other e-mails they have to go through. I'll take a live person over an automated e-mail any day...
 
I don't know if I mentioned this in my linked thread, but my Thug is the later "Easy Load" version. The rounds just push in to the mag tube with no cycling of the bolt (except to put one in the chamber and add another to the tube). Emptying the tube just requires cycling the bolt until no more come out.

This is in contrast to a Kral (Turkish) TriStar 12ga SA ATAC PG tactical I picked up and have since traded for a 9mm pistol. This gun loaded easy enough, but to unload required a weird cycle the bolt, round comes out of the chamber, pull trigger on an empty chamber to "release" the bolt release allowing another round to come out. Or something like this. Was not the safest method and I had a trade offer in my favor so I took it.
 
I reckon I will give in and call them ........

I think mine is an
"Easy Load" as well .....heck, I just bought it brand new two months ago .
I didn't like trying to get it to cycle with live ammo - even with the safety on and being super careful ..........
I was real nervous trying to empty the mag tube pumping the action .
I have to decide now between to lessor evils :
send it back to Mossberg

or take it in to my local gunsmith , he charges $65 per hour but thinks it is probably something minor being it's never been fired .

If I had more guts -I would remove the trigger group myself and "tinker" around with it b4 paying to have it fixed . But I have no idea how the semi-auto lifter mechanism works .
 
MarinecoatMarine said:
I have to decide now between to lessor evils :
send it back to Mossberg

or take it in to my local gunsmith , he charges $65 per hour but thinks it is probably something minor being it's never been fired .

If I had more guts -I would remove the trigger group myself and "tinker" around with it b4 paying to have it fixed . But I have no idea how the semi-auto lifter mechanism works .
Click to expand...

There is really nothing to them... field strip as described in manual, push pin out of trigger group and pivot group out of receiver/stock. Put bolt and transfer bar on top of trigger group and examine how they work. Try not to let hammer "slam" into the trigger housing--lower it gently. There may also be parts in the receiver that do stuff like the bolt release button.

Part of my enjoyment of guns is learning the mechanisms that make them work--the interaction of parts that culminates with the firing pin striking the primer then gun goes BOOM. :)
 
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