Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag Pump Action Accumag Chokes
- Thread starter moss835oregon
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I want to share this but I'll preface by saying I already have another email in to Scott Carlson for more clarification.
This is my email to him and his response;
"Hi,
My name is Brad Rossignol. I recently purchased a coyote choke (not the dead
coyote tube) for my 835.
I most commonly use 00 buck but I'm finding that #4 buck tends to pattern quite a bit better. However, my patterns aren't good enough that I'm comfortable pushing beyond 35 to 40 yards.
So I have a couple questions;
What is the exit diameter of the coyote tube?
And, what load in your experience do you achieve the best patterns?
Ideally, I'd like to achieve solid, lethal patterns to around 50 yards as coyote are prevalent in our area. Something like hevishot is not really an option for me due to the cost.
Additionally, I'm documenting, and chronicling my testing and experiences for the online forum "Mossberg Owners" at
mossbergowners.com
Thank you in advance as any information helps me as well as possibly helping others in our community in the future!
Brad.
Sent from my Mossberg 590A1"
"Brad:
Thank you for your email. Our buckshot choke to fit your model 835 is a .727 constriction, our Coyote choke for your shotgun is a .675 constriction and is made to shoot the Hevi Shot Dead Coyote 3" T load and the Federal
Heavyweight Coyote BB load. When shooting buckshot for Coyotes you need to purchase good quality ammunition that is nickel or copper platted. Many of the lead buck shot loads are manufactured for home defense or law enforcement and will not pattern buckshot at distance, copper and nickel buffered loads pattern much better and penetrate better at distance.
Having hunted coyotes with shotguns myself I can say that any buckshot has a range of 45 yards with enough killing energy. Hevi Shot 3" t's will extend that range to 65 yards because of the weight of the pellets. They still have
enough energy to kill a coyote over lead buckshot.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Scott
CARLSON'S CHOKE TUBES
785-626-3700
www.choketube.com"
So the tube I have I believe has an exit diameter of .727. Now he mentions any buckshot has a range of 45 yards with enough killing energy. Let's sort through this a little. I believe he means any buckshot has killing energy at a range of 45 yards. That isn't to say that any buckshot can be put on target at 45 yards. You and I and you and you and yes you too, all know some loads fall apart very quickly. Sure the shot is out there in the ether somewhere but if it isn't on target it isn't helping.
I mention in my email to him that buying hevishot isn't really an option. That's because the dead coyote is $5 a shell. I'm already spending nearly $2 a shell which is the quality plated and buffered shot he mentions.
I have a few more questions out to him already, I'll post when I hear more.
This is my email to him and his response;
"Hi,
My name is Brad Rossignol. I recently purchased a coyote choke (not the dead
coyote tube) for my 835.
I most commonly use 00 buck but I'm finding that #4 buck tends to pattern quite a bit better. However, my patterns aren't good enough that I'm comfortable pushing beyond 35 to 40 yards.
So I have a couple questions;
What is the exit diameter of the coyote tube?
And, what load in your experience do you achieve the best patterns?
Ideally, I'd like to achieve solid, lethal patterns to around 50 yards as coyote are prevalent in our area. Something like hevishot is not really an option for me due to the cost.
Additionally, I'm documenting, and chronicling my testing and experiences for the online forum "Mossberg Owners" at
mossbergowners.com
Thank you in advance as any information helps me as well as possibly helping others in our community in the future!
Brad.
Sent from my Mossberg 590A1"
"Brad:
Thank you for your email. Our buckshot choke to fit your model 835 is a .727 constriction, our Coyote choke for your shotgun is a .675 constriction and is made to shoot the Hevi Shot Dead Coyote 3" T load and the Federal
Heavyweight Coyote BB load. When shooting buckshot for Coyotes you need to purchase good quality ammunition that is nickel or copper platted. Many of the lead buck shot loads are manufactured for home defense or law enforcement and will not pattern buckshot at distance, copper and nickel buffered loads pattern much better and penetrate better at distance.
Having hunted coyotes with shotguns myself I can say that any buckshot has a range of 45 yards with enough killing energy. Hevi Shot 3" t's will extend that range to 65 yards because of the weight of the pellets. They still have
enough energy to kill a coyote over lead buckshot.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Scott
CARLSON'S CHOKE TUBES
785-626-3700
www.choketube.com"
So the tube I have I believe has an exit diameter of .727. Now he mentions any buckshot has a range of 45 yards with enough killing energy. Let's sort through this a little. I believe he means any buckshot has killing energy at a range of 45 yards. That isn't to say that any buckshot can be put on target at 45 yards. You and I and you and you and yes you too, all know some loads fall apart very quickly. Sure the shot is out there in the ether somewhere but if it isn't on target it isn't helping.
I mention in my email to him that buying hevishot isn't really an option. That's because the dead coyote is $5 a shell. I'm already spending nearly $2 a shell which is the quality plated and buffered shot he mentions.
I have a few more questions out to him already, I'll post when I hear more.
I called Carlson's today on my way home from work while I was waiting for the highway to move.
I spoke with a tech for some clarification. I gave him the part number of my choke and told him its for the 835 and asked the exit diameter and difference between mine and the "dead coyote" tube.
He said the exit diameter of each is .690. Yes. They are the same. He said the dead coyote tube is branded with the Hevishot logo but that each is .690.
That's getting into turkey choke dimensions.
So the tech said #4 buck and smaller. Based on my correspondence with Scott Carlson, the chokes are best suited for T loads and BBs. Heavier than lead stuff but not steel.
The saga continues.
I spoke with a tech for some clarification. I gave him the part number of my choke and told him its for the 835 and asked the exit diameter and difference between mine and the "dead coyote" tube.
He said the exit diameter of each is .690. Yes. They are the same. He said the dead coyote tube is branded with the Hevishot logo but that each is .690.
That's getting into turkey choke dimensions.
So the tech said #4 buck and smaller. Based on my correspondence with Scott Carlson, the chokes are best suited for T loads and BBs. Heavier than lead stuff but not steel.
The saga continues.
Thanks to Mr. @ripjack13 I was able to perform a field sobriety test with the Truglo StruttStopper. Is that right?
I'm impressed, I would push this one out beyond 25 yards for sure! Check out the pic;
That's 254 pellets in a 10" circle which is better than anything I've tried yet by nearly 100 pellets. POA is nearly POI as you can see, if that we're a turkey head it would have been shredded.
I don't recall off hand the cost of the Truglo, but the Carlson choke is about $50 and the Kicks is $56. I believe this one is less than $40 and maybe less than $30.
For the sake of experimentation, I still want to try a couple more. Supposedly, the other two I just mentioned, will also pattern like this.
PS I had to make this image smaller to upload and it's half the size of the original. I have the full size pic uploaded on IG.
I'm impressed, I would push this one out beyond 25 yards for sure! Check out the pic;
That's 254 pellets in a 10" circle which is better than anything I've tried yet by nearly 100 pellets. POA is nearly POI as you can see, if that we're a turkey head it would have been shredded.
I don't recall off hand the cost of the Truglo, but the Carlson choke is about $50 and the Kicks is $56. I believe this one is less than $40 and maybe less than $30.
For the sake of experimentation, I still want to try a couple more. Supposedly, the other two I just mentioned, will also pattern like this.
PS I had to make this image smaller to upload and it's half the size of the original. I have the full size pic uploaded on IG.
Post #16....thats my specs I was tellin ya about...
http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-shotgun-chokes.2090/#p21597
Then shooters reply below that....
http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-shotgun-chokes.2090/#p21597
Then shooters reply below that....
Sweet, thanks!
So the Struttstopper xtreme has an exit diameter of .670 and the parallel section has grooves if you will that run lengthwise while the section in the barrel seems to have stepped ridges.
The load I used has a little over 300 pellets, 254 of which are in the 10" circle at 25 yards.
I'm impressed, somewhat amazed even. The Truglo is highly under rated in my estimation. It hasn't got the big name of some others, it isn't the prettiest or the most expensive. But son! That pattern is crazy! There are about 60 pellets outside the circle and even then, all those are still very close to the circle, there are a handful of flyers that may be outside of 20".
So the Struttstopper xtreme has an exit diameter of .670 and the parallel section has grooves if you will that run lengthwise while the section in the barrel seems to have stepped ridges.
The load I used has a little over 300 pellets, 254 of which are in the 10" circle at 25 yards.
I'm impressed, somewhat amazed even. The Truglo is highly under rated in my estimation. It hasn't got the big name of some others, it isn't the prettiest or the most expensive. But son! That pattern is crazy! There are about 60 pellets outside the circle and even then, all those are still very close to the circle, there are a handful of flyers that may be outside of 20".
http://www.wingsupply.com/shooting-gear/chokes/truglo-wing-stopper-choke-12-gauge/
and you can use steel in this one...$17!!!
and you can use steel in this one...$17!!!
Those are excellent prices for a product that lacks hype and flat WORKS!
I'm still trying to find a buckshot choke and while I have this Carlson's coyote choke, I'm underwhelmed as I was told it was good to go for buckshot only to find the constriction is too tight and in reality it's designed for BB and smaller. I'm a little jaded for having spent the $50 on a product that is really hyped and yet it's useless to me right now.
I'm still trying to find a buckshot choke and while I have this Carlson's coyote choke, I'm underwhelmed as I was told it was good to go for buckshot only to find the constriction is too tight and in reality it's designed for BB and smaller. I'm a little jaded for having spent the $50 on a product that is really hyped and yet it's useless to me right now.
I've had it a few weeks and fired several rounds through it trying to find something that works. The only thing that came close was the #4 buck and while it was ok at 25 yards there's no way I could use it much beyond that.
There are a couple loads like Winchester XR B shot that may work without having to buy the really expensive HeviShot that's 5 or $6 a load.
Scott Carlson also recommended a Federal load that is a heavier than lead load but its also a FliteControl load which goes against the conventional wisdom of choke manufacturers I've spoken to as well as my own experiences to this point.
I'm almost willing to try one more load through it. The goal is to find a combination that works better than my 500 with FliteControl 00.
I believe that's been accomplished with the turkey choke. I'd put my name to that all day long. And in fact I need to get out and fire that combination at a couple more distances, maybe 35 or 40 yards and then at 50 to see if the pattern is still dense enough to trust.
There are a couple loads like Winchester XR B shot that may work without having to buy the really expensive HeviShot that's 5 or $6 a load.
Scott Carlson also recommended a Federal load that is a heavier than lead load but its also a FliteControl load which goes against the conventional wisdom of choke manufacturers I've spoken to as well as my own experiences to this point.
I'm almost willing to try one more load through it. The goal is to find a combination that works better than my 500 with FliteControl 00.
I believe that's been accomplished with the turkey choke. I'd put my name to that all day long. And in fact I need to get out and fire that combination at a couple more distances, maybe 35 or 40 yards and then at 50 to see if the pattern is still dense enough to trust.
After searching for ammo that would be "recommended" for the Carlson's coyote choke, I'm finding that I'm unable to source anything other than the Hevishot which is $30 for a box of 10 or the Winchester XR 3" B shot which it seems only one place has in stock online for $20 for 5 rounds. 3 and $4 a load plus shipping is not acceptable and renders this choke useless to me.
Take a look at this screenshot from Carlson's site for the description of the coyote choke;
After viewing this, is there anything in there that would cause one to think it isn't intended to be used with buckshot of some sort? Devastating down range patterns, upwards of 70 yards, larger shot sizes, very dense patterns utilizing T and buckshot loads... I can't get a decent pattern at 25 yards, how am I going to get to 70?
I'm going to contact Carlson's today, if they won't refund it, I'll at least expect a replacement of a more suitable constriction for buckshot, something in the range of a .720 exit diameter.
Take a look at this screenshot from Carlson's site for the description of the coyote choke;
After viewing this, is there anything in there that would cause one to think it isn't intended to be used with buckshot of some sort? Devastating down range patterns, upwards of 70 yards, larger shot sizes, very dense patterns utilizing T and buckshot loads... I can't get a decent pattern at 25 yards, how am I going to get to 70?
I'm going to contact Carlson's today, if they won't refund it, I'll at least expect a replacement of a more suitable constriction for buckshot, something in the range of a .720 exit diameter.
Talked to Scott Carlson again today. I explained my findings and frustrations.
Something a little surprising came of the conversation. He said the coyote choke has an exit diameter of .670. That's tighter than than the Truglo I borrowed from RipJack but doesn't pattern the turkey load as well.
I also explained I'm not buying cheap ammo like unplated lead for home defense, but rather plated and buffered Winchester that's still more than $2 a load. He asked if I've patterned the ammo through other chokes, which I have, the factory .695 choke. He asked how it patterned, I told him not any better. He said that would indicate a problem with that load just not patterning well.
In my mind, since I've been told the choke is three different constrictions, maybe the choke really is closer to the .690 the tech at Carlson's had told me. Which may also explain why it didn't pattern the turkey load anywhere near as well as the Truglo.
Furthermore, if its tighter than the turkey chokes, why would I want a larger sized load?
He maintains I should try either the Hevishot T or Federal BB. If I can find them. However, he would exchange the choke tube if that's the route I decide to go.
The Hevishot dead coyote is $5 + a round... I don't know it's that important, what I really need is a choke that is effective and efficient for varmints and coyote should the occasion come up. He is really quite certain that if I try the Hevishot, I won't be disappointed and will appreciate the effective range it offers which had not previously been thought possible with a shotgun.
Still thinking on this....
Something a little surprising came of the conversation. He said the coyote choke has an exit diameter of .670. That's tighter than than the Truglo I borrowed from RipJack but doesn't pattern the turkey load as well.
I also explained I'm not buying cheap ammo like unplated lead for home defense, but rather plated and buffered Winchester that's still more than $2 a load. He asked if I've patterned the ammo through other chokes, which I have, the factory .695 choke. He asked how it patterned, I told him not any better. He said that would indicate a problem with that load just not patterning well.
In my mind, since I've been told the choke is three different constrictions, maybe the choke really is closer to the .690 the tech at Carlson's had told me. Which may also explain why it didn't pattern the turkey load anywhere near as well as the Truglo.
Furthermore, if its tighter than the turkey chokes, why would I want a larger sized load?
He maintains I should try either the Hevishot T or Federal BB. If I can find them. However, he would exchange the choke tube if that's the route I decide to go.
The Hevishot dead coyote is $5 + a round... I don't know it's that important, what I really need is a choke that is effective and efficient for varmints and coyote should the occasion come up. He is really quite certain that if I try the Hevishot, I won't be disappointed and will appreciate the effective range it offers which had not previously been thought possible with a shotgun.
Still thinking on this....
Alright, here's where I am on this;
I've found that a couple of the loads suggested by Scott Carlson have been discontinued leaving the HeviShot T at $5 a round.
I had been trying to find Winchester XR high density B 3" but have been unsuccessful until now. Buds Guns has it for $11 for 5 rounds. It's expensive but not as much as the HeviShot.
I'm going to purchase a couple boxes and try it out. If its not satisfactory ill be sending the choke back to Carlson's.
I've found that a couple of the loads suggested by Scott Carlson have been discontinued leaving the HeviShot T at $5 a round.
I had been trying to find Winchester XR high density B 3" but have been unsuccessful until now. Buds Guns has it for $11 for 5 rounds. It's expensive but not as much as the HeviShot.
I'm going to purchase a couple boxes and try it out. If its not satisfactory ill be sending the choke back to Carlson's.
I ordered the Winchester XR from Buds. Including shipping, the shells are just over $3 each. Still better than the Hevishot.
These are a tungsten alloy as far as I know, but are definitely not lead. I got enough to fire a few or several rounds for patterning and still have some on hand if they perform.
The only reason I ordered these is to give the Carlson's choke a fair shake based on Scott Carlson's recommended loads. This is however my last attempt at making it work.
These are a tungsten alloy as far as I know, but are definitely not lead. I got enough to fire a few or several rounds for patterning and still have some on hand if they perform.
The only reason I ordered these is to give the Carlson's choke a fair shake based on Scott Carlson's recommended loads. This is however my last attempt at making it work.
Carlson's coyote choke and Winchester XR 3" hi-density coyote B.
I have stumbled upon a load and choke combination I'm rather pleased with! I have a number of photos to upload and I'll try to be both clear and concise. This is my shotgun range at 25 yards;
I fired the first round from my 20" 500 Persuader, the control gun, at 25 yards.
This is a non pattern which I expected. The pellets cover nearly all of the 48"x48" target.
The following pics will be in order, 25, 40, and 50 yards. I included pics of the Winchester box and ammo, as well as the tube. A couple of the pics, both the 40 and 50 yard patterns, are of the backside of the target because the hits show up better rather than standing back and looking at an otherwise smooth surface. The pattern density shows up better this way.
The load is of course the one pictured above, but the box has changed and it no longer includes the velocity info. If I counted correctly, there are 75 pellets to the 1-3/8 oz load of hi-density tungsten alloy.
The 25 yard pattern shows all the pellets which are in a 14-1/2" diameter with 54 pellets in a 10" circle.
At 40 yards, I counted all but a couple pellets on my target with 70 pellets in a 30" diameter and still dense enough to be effective.
50 yards was missing a few more pellets on target but I still counted 62 in a 30" diameter while the bulk of those, 50 pellets were within 24". It's spread out a little more, but still dense enough.
At the end of this, I'll link up a video I've referenced here before. Heck, it may even be posted already. But the guy is using the coyote tube with the Hevishot dead coyote and did not produce the patterns I did today. I'm pleased, nay excited! to say these patterns are better!
Ok, photos now.
Choke and ammo followed by 25 yards;
40 yards;
And finally, 50 yards;
I have stumbled upon a load and choke combination I'm rather pleased with! I have a number of photos to upload and I'll try to be both clear and concise. This is my shotgun range at 25 yards;
I fired the first round from my 20" 500 Persuader, the control gun, at 25 yards.
This is a non pattern which I expected. The pellets cover nearly all of the 48"x48" target.
The following pics will be in order, 25, 40, and 50 yards. I included pics of the Winchester box and ammo, as well as the tube. A couple of the pics, both the 40 and 50 yard patterns, are of the backside of the target because the hits show up better rather than standing back and looking at an otherwise smooth surface. The pattern density shows up better this way.
The load is of course the one pictured above, but the box has changed and it no longer includes the velocity info. If I counted correctly, there are 75 pellets to the 1-3/8 oz load of hi-density tungsten alloy.
The 25 yard pattern shows all the pellets which are in a 14-1/2" diameter with 54 pellets in a 10" circle.
At 40 yards, I counted all but a couple pellets on my target with 70 pellets in a 30" diameter and still dense enough to be effective.
50 yards was missing a few more pellets on target but I still counted 62 in a 30" diameter while the bulk of those, 50 pellets were within 24". It's spread out a little more, but still dense enough.
At the end of this, I'll link up a video I've referenced here before. Heck, it may even be posted already. But the guy is using the coyote tube with the Hevishot dead coyote and did not produce the patterns I did today. I'm pleased, nay excited! to say these patterns are better!
Ok, photos now.
Choke and ammo followed by 25 yards;
40 yards;
And finally, 50 yards;
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