Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag Pump Action Accumag Chokes

[Rossignol]

I owe you guys some pics. I fired 4 rounds today @ 25 yards through the Kicks Howler H before sending it back. I fired;
Winchester Ranger 2 3/4" low recoil 9 pellet 00 buck
Winchester DoubleX 3" 12 pellet 00 buck
Hornady law enforcement low recoil (blue hull) 2 3/4" 8 pellet 00 buck
Hornady Critical Defense (same as law enforcement light magnum full power) 2 3/4" 8 pellet 00 buck

The Hornady loads are both VersaTite loads. My expectation was for these to be terrible through the ported Kicks choke. I was partially correct. The low recoil was terrible. I mean absolutely bad awful ugly with pellets I don't even know where. The Critical Defense wasn't so bad. In fact, it would be worth exploring further if one were so inclined to keep it on hand. The Winchester Ranger was ok too, and the DoubleX was not altogether bad but not worth picturing. I am including the choke in these pics too.

This first pic is of the Winchester Ranger.



And the Hornady Light Magnum/Critical Defense. Notice the VersaTite wad went through near the bull.



A close up of the choke and Winchester pattern.



And the choke.

 

[Rossignol]

Edited the above post.

 

[Rossignol]

I have a photo to share, but first I have to hand it to Carlson's for a quick turnaround on the replacement choke. I sent the Longbeard choke back Saturday via USPS priority flat rate. They had it by Tuesday this week and I had the replacement Friday.

The Longbeard has an exit diameter of .683 and the 3 concentric rings in the tapered section. I exchanged it for the extended ported choke with an exit diameter of .675 and no rings.

I kept it apples to apples. I used the same Longbeard XR 3" #5 shot I had with the corresponding choke which placed 105 pellets in 10" at 40 yards. Not impressive compared to the Truglo. Which I made Carlson's aware of. The extended ported choke they sent back put 117 of those pellets in a 10" circle. It is an improvement. Not drastic, but better. I'll email Carlson's and share my experiences again, and while I don't expect to see any changes, I'll suggest the Longbeard should be tighter than .683. The extended ported turkey choke in .675 is the tightest choke they make for the 835 which is already a massive constriction of 1/10th of an inch. Maybe it's just my gun with the shorter barrel and maybe it likes the tighter choke tubes. Who knows. But if we're comparing apples to apples, I may have to send my choke to say @ripjack13 for him to test his Truglo against the Carlson's with identical ammunition.

I measured immediately around POA without adjusting at all, POI was actually very nearly centered. I'll get better pics yet, just didn't have a ton of time.

40 yards, Carlson's extended ported turkey choke, .675, Winchester 3" Longbeard XR #5, 117 pellets in 10" diameter.

 

[Rossignol]

Here is the Carlson's extended ported turkey choke, followed by a question.



How much choke would you all consider too much for a heavy B load? I've fired the hi-density B through .690 and .683. Would you think .675 is too much? The choke says ok for heavier than lead, but we're starting with the .775 bore of the 835 and not a standard 12 ga. So it's 1/10" of constriction compared to .050 to .060.

 

[Rossignol]

I've been in contact with Scott Carlson today. I thanked him for the quick turnaround and that I was able to pattern it over the weekend.

He asked how it did, and I told him my thoughts, that its an improvement but not my expectations and that there are still holes in the pattern at 40 yards and that would be the longest shot I'd be comfortable taking with this set up and I don't know what the alternative would be if the .675 is the tightest choke they make for the 835. I know using a #6 will increase pellet count but not necessarily tighten the pattern. Going to a smaller shot size in a too open already choke is counter intuitive.

Waiting to hear back.

 

[Rossignol]

No reply yet from Scott Carlson after two days. He's usually very quick about getting back in touch, for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

On another related note;
I put the Kicks Howler H in the mail last Friday. The BuckKicker replacement was in my mail box today. That's a four day turnaround from my hands and back again. That's crazy fast, all through USPS priority.

I won't be shooting until Friday at the earliest now that its dark when I get home. Additionally, the Mrs. has people coming over Friday evening and she has work for me to do.

I'm going to try the Hevishot through the Kicks but I don't plan on buying anymore of the stuff. I'll be ordering some more ammo to try, Federal VitalShok 3" #4 buckshot with 41 pellets. I'm also going to order Federal WingShok 3" BB 1-7/8 oz (not sure about pellet count) to try with the Carlson's coyote choke. I have to find a replacement for the Winchester B I won't have access to anymore. It's still available, but now, only to members. It's $30 a year... Not sure if its worth it for ammo (which I really like) that has been discontinued. However, if I can't find a load that works with that choke, I'll have a cool looking paper weight as soon as what I have on hand is gone.

Any thoughts, advice?

 

[ripjack13]

Members?

 

[Rossignol]

Members?

I've been buying the Winchester heavy B through Buds Guns. It's now only available (reserved for) "members" at a cost of $29 for the first year. I don't know how much stock is left, but the membership is good for discounts on other things as well.

 

[Rossignol]

Heard back from Scott Carlson today. We exchanged emails a few times. He honestly didn't remember if he had responded to my previous message yet.

He still recommends using the Winchester 3" Longbeard XR but the #6 shot. He said its all they use anymore and is good to 60+ yards. Which I believe if my set up will get any sort of pattern out that far. He confirmed the extended ported turkey choke at .675 is the tightest they make for the 835. It's a shame, my gun seems to do better with tighter chokes for the turkey ammo. Perhaps it's the shorter barrel.

He said to check out the Winchester "Pattern Board" online. I looked it up and it's pretty cool. While Carlson's shot all the patterns used in the app, it's definitely not what I'm seeing through my gun. I wish the app said what guns and barrel lengths are used but it breaks it down by gauge, a limited choke selection, ammo and pellet size, and yards from 10 to 70.

My wife is having some people over for a "spa day"? I don't know what this is but I'm leaving. Probably to Bass Pro to pick up some #6 shot to run through that choke. I'll be hunting again in the am with my daughter then it's a honey do list for her girl stuff. I'll go out after that and maybe have some pics later in the evening. Maybe get a turkey tomorrow morning?

 

[Rossignol]

A quick update.

I ran the Federal VitalShok 3" 4 buck with 41 pellets through the Kicks BuckKicker at 40 yards this afternoon. It is NOT a FliteControl load though if you read reviews, some of the authors are inclined to believe that it is. I went straight to Federal Premium for verification.

My initial impressions are that it's a good combination. I fired three shots, all were pretty much POA=POI. The pattern wasn't more than 24" max but maybe with a few strays. There isn't a more dense "core" as one would look for in a predator or turkey combination but this is probably the best yet or at least a close second. (The Winchester Hi-Density B is still a favorite) This Federal load though is the least expensive I've tried to date which also makes it a more viable option.

I'll try and have photos tomorrow but the combination seems to average 8 or 9 hits of a nearly .25 caliber ball of copper plated lead in a 10" circle at POA. It's a viable 40 yard gun set up.

I know manufacturers will say a particular load is effective to 70 yards. Or that a choke will produce lethal patterns with a given load 50 to 70 yards. 50 is believable in some cases. I have yet to find proof of 70 yard lethality with any load or any choke. I have heard claims by people, never proof. No patterns. No dogs. And no cats. Even manufacturers haven't been able to provide me with eveidence. I believe certain loads are lethal to those distances, but I've not seen a choke/gun combination to get pellets out that far on target. Scott Carlson insists his coyote choke will do it. I'm telling you it won't. I've told him as much, at least with my gun. I've related the story previously, but even as of this week, he's said again the combination will work, that his choke will do it, and that Hevishot is as expensive as it is because it's the best and it kills dogs at 70 yards. Still... No proof. There has to at least be a pattern somewhere. At least Kicks has been more realistic with claims of 20-22" patterns at 40 yards and lethal patterns at 50 yards.

Honestly, I can't see a target at 70 yards. And I don't know anyone shotgunning at 70 yards. (Not with shot anyway) That's rifle territory. I will be ecstatic if I get a solid 50 yard gun. I'm not saying it can't be done. Only after exhaustive searches and reading approximately 70 pages of data, research, and end user results, I've found two things; hollow claims and solid evidence at shorter distances with most shots made between 35 and 40 yards. I even found one guy swearing his life to and extolling the virtues of turkey loads for coyotes. And at impressive distances and head shots even. Yet no proof.

I have two more shots to take tomorrow before I get pics. Unless I wanna brave the cold wind driven rain anymore this evening. Don't know that I care to.

 

[Rossignol]

Another thought or two as I reread the above post and corrected some errors.

I looked at my patterns again of the Kicks Howler H and the Hevishot and with the Winchester heavy B. These are the two I'll be shooting tomorrow through the .720 BuckKicker XFull to compare to the Howler H .745. Looking at those patterns again causes me to expect decent results.

I also wanted to mention this;
Something I found while searching forums and manufacturers claims and reviews and load data was one guy in particular who has patterned more chokes and more loads than I've seen anywhere else. Something he impressed upon readers was that for predator hunting, pattern like you would for turkey. No 30" circles and only count pellets at POA. He has also made suggestions or recommendations for minimum pellet hits on target to be effective.

I understand this isn't new cutting edge information to some, but it was to me and therefore I believe it could be to someone else out there wandering through the ether. That and it keeps my brain busy.

​

 

[ripjack13]

Looks like a big storm over there...

 

[Rossignol]

I have 3 photos today. These are all from what I described above, the combination of the Kicks BuckKicker .720 and Federal Premium 3" VitalShok copper plated 4 Buck 41 pellet. I'll show the patterns in the order I shot them.

First shot; 11 pellets



Second shot; 9 pellets



Third shot; 15 pellets



I'm not sure why there are that many more pellets in the 3rd shot. The range of 9 to 15 averages 12 over the three here. I'd have to shoot more to see what's repeatable, to find the consistency. These aren't awesome patterns in my opinion, and I don't know what I should be satisfied with. I'm going to email these photos to Chuck at Kicks and see what he thinks. If I can do maybe 5 more shots and am averaging 12 pellets consistently at POA, I could be ok with that. I think. The patterns still aren't circular and I feel it should be and if it isn't, then the choke isn't quite right with the load. I'm really not sure.

 

[Rossignol]

I sent an email to Chuck at Kicks and provided him the three photos I posted above as well as three corresponding photos of the full pattern. I asked his opinion and he said it looks great to him.

On the one hand, it could be said he's a salesman and he's not going to tell me it could be better. On the other, their exchange policy is very open ended and generous. They're willing to continue exchanging tubes until the customer is satisfied.

I'm interested in second and third opinions. I'm also willing to explore this combo some more.

 

[ripjack13]

On the one hand, it could be said he's a salesman and he's not going to tell me it could be better.

Of course...

 

[Rossignol]

Of course...

I had another party look at the photos. He said those patterns are as good as any he's seen of 4 buck through any gun and choke.

 

[ripjack13]

Idk Brad....those don't look like I'd be proud of em. Not you...the manufacturer of em.
Did you target more or just those 3?

 

[ripjack13]

Hmm...interesting. I don't have any #4 so I really could say one way or another. But I would have thought more would be in the circle....

 

[ripjack13]

I also wish this area had more participants other than just you and I....

 

[Rossignol]

Idk Brad....those don't look like I'd be proud of em. Not you...the manufacturer of em.
Did you target more or just those 3?

I kinda feel the same way. I'm not entirely excited about the patterns. Sort of.

I think it's the nature of larger shot, especially buckshot sizes. I'm not excited but I have to remind myself that these were shot at 40 yards and that these patterns are lethal. They're not pretty though.

I shot three from the Kicks choke and one from the Carlson's. the Carlson's is too tight for the 4 buck. The shot is stringing horizontally. I'm going to try a few more of these though to see if I can find what's goin to be consistent.

I'd still prefer a slightly smaller load with more pellets that at least patterns circularly but in the absence of HTL shot, going smaller means less lethality beyond what I've got here.

Hmm...interesting. I don't have any #4 so I really could say one way or another. But I would have thought more would be in the circle....

I'm going to try the factory ulti-full .695 and see if that rounds out the pattern and tightens it up any.

I also wish this area had more participants other than just you and I....

That would be cool. There isn't a whole lot on the webz that's specific to the 835 and I can't imagine people want to keep hearing from me.

Let me know when you're good to shoot again. I'm going to get that choke back to you and I want to send this Carlson's ported turkey choke to you too for you to compare through your rig. I'll send ammo too. I'd like to see if what I'm experiencing is universal or if its my gun and the shorter barrel.

There's plenty out there in forums and in articles about this load and this choke or that choke with that load and you can ask what to use or who recommends what, but then it's from an 11-87, or a super black eagle III or franchi, beretta and so on. And while those are 12 gauge bores, some of those are smaller than standard, some are larger. Few are the times anyone is using an 835 and while someone is sucessfully using a Dead Coyote choke with Hevishot and getting great 60 yard patterns, it's with an SBE III with a nominal inside bore diameter of .72- something which doesn't get any of us here close to an expectation of whether or not the same combination will work with what we're using.

So even if its just us, it may help the next poor soul who buys an 835 and goes to pattern something and is like "this sucks!" and starts searching to find out why.