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.223/5.56 for HD/PD

tcecil88

.30-06
Elite Member
I am looking for a good .223/5.56 round for HD and PD. I looked at Winchester's PDX1 load and it was $34.95/20 rd. at Dick's. :shock:
Can anyone recommend an affordable round, preferably a hollow point? .223 or 5.56, I don't care which.
Thanks very much.
 
I purchased some Hornady TAP FPD 55 gr. through Palmetto State Armory for $17 ish a box. It has that polymer ballistic tip on it. Its the same as the VMax but with a nickel case rather than brass.

I couldnt tell ya for certainbout the expansion.

Unless theres somethin crazy new and unique in that PDX round, that cost is goin towards marketing and packaghing.
 
Honestly, any .223 or 5.56 is going to cause someone to have a REALY bad day. I would beleive that because of the way the bullet tumbles once impacting a target, that the resulting trauma SHOULD stop most cases so long as the projectile make's it's mark.

Shot placement is the over riding factor in EVERY caliber. Expansion is just an additional factor that should add additional trauma so long as you are hitting the mark. There is a pretty interesting viedo that I ran across a while ago that gives a pretty good breakdown of this fact.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmBPLX3F5lg[/youtube]

I am learning that all the fancy gimics that the manufacturers are selling are interesting and may have a benifit but you need to weigh out the cost to the result. No bullet is designed to make you a better marksman under stress.
 
Thanks guys. I know the way the Military ball 5.56 55 gr. and 62 gr. bullets tend to fragment when they hit a human, splitting into multiple pieces with their own wound tracks. However, I do not know much about .223 ball and how it reacts on human tissue. This is the reason I was interested in a hollow point round. I have shot the VMAX before in a .222 loading on groundhogs with inpressive results, so the .223 loading should be good as well. I will just have to start asking around the LGS and see what they have to offer.
 
I'm soooo pissed. I wrote a quite readable post around 4:00-am "while on the clock" but when I clicked SUBMIT it seems that I hadn't first logged in so it was all lost. Dammit.

Here's my reply: I am completely opinionated on this topic and my ideas are wide open to criticism.....

A "Hollow Point" .224 bullet isn't an expanding bullet lilke a soft-lead .22LR or a pistol bullet.

A .223 Remington or 5.56mm NATO bullet that is called a "hollow point" is actually intended to be an OTM (Open Tip Match) which is elongated because the open hollow tip pushes the lead core to the rear while still maintaining the same weight although now longer (requiring a faster twist). When the bullet is elongated, and it still weighs the same as it's shorter version, the Ballistic Coefficient goes up meaning better ability to resist cross-wind and other factors meaning improved accuracy. The actual "hollow point" is basically meaningless as far as causing tissue damage.

So a "hollow point" .223/5.56 bullet isn't going to do all the fragmenting and mushrooming that other designs will accomplish. It's meant to give slightly better accuracy at longer ranges.

Ballistic Tips use a polymer tip to force expansion at the expense of initiating the expansion quite quickly and explosively. This is why Hornady TAP is popular because Hornady marketed that bullet to not 'over-expand' even though the dirty little secret is that it might 'under-perform' against some heavily muscled or obese large targets. Think 3"-4" penetration in some circumstances. The 5.56mm TAP bullet is a re-marketed varmint bullet intended to explode sudenly and effectively on small game.

Pointed Soft Points (PSPs) such as the Winchester and Remington will allow a SLOWER expansion into a fairly solid and weight-retaining mushroom, but they won't give the explosive and horribly devastating tissue damage of am M193 55-gr FMJ w/ cannelure (such as you are already quite familiar with of the effects). I like the PSP bullet from a defensive AR as a #2 choice to cannelured FMJs, and if you add a partition bullet for the 5.56mm then I still like the PSP, the partition and the cannelured FMJ over $2.00/round ballistic tips
 
I'm happy keepin the M193 55 gr. ball ammo on hand for just about anything really. I have the Hornady, but too expensive to keep stocked up on...

I really just got it to keep as a consideration for coyote, but the M193 because of the cannelure is a fine choice and is my first choice too for the very reasons already described here.

I've bought some for $5.97 per 20 and as much as $9 per 20. If you can find the bulk stuff in stock, even better!

Fellas, real good info, thanks for helpin out!

PS, NiteSite. I always highlight, right click and copy my entire message before submitting! Just cuz its happened to me too several times where I've had stuff typed out and then find I'm not logged in or I get logged out... The simple step of copying everything first saves lots of headache!
 
Great post nitesite!

I also prefer the Fed. xm193 to most other loads in my ARs.

...oh and nitesite, I shave my head every morning b'cause of how many times I've pulled my hair out when that happens. I also copy any lengthy or detailed post before I submit just to be safe... :D
 
If you can't find or use SS109's, see if you can find some 60 gr Tap Barriers'.

They're not very common, but they are used by nuclear security teams and are good for light steel/concrete barriers and vehicles, and the likes.

I know you asked about 5.56 for serious work, but 6.8 would make a very good duty round, but they're not cheap.
 
Thanks for the responses, guys, especially nitesite. I knew I would get good info from you guys, and I was not disappointed.
Thanks again! :)
 
I know it is not the 55 gr. M193 round we were talking about, but I got a 420 rd. can of Federal American Eagle M855 62 gr. ball at Wally World for $164. The same can at Gander Mountain is $229 and Dick's is $200.
 
tcecil88 said:
I know it is not the 55 gr. M193 round we were talking about, but I got a 420 rd. can of Federal American Eagle M855 62 gr. ball at Wally World for $164. The same can at Gander Mountain is $229 and Dick's is $200.

:shock: ARE YOU KIDDIN ME!!! :shock: At WalMart!!! The M855 steel core penetrator!? Man, where the heck do you live? Our WalMart, I was there last night, The shelves are bare and they have never sold bulk 5.56! The best they have is 20 round boxes of Rem and Fed .223 FMJ, not boat tail, not cannelure except for the crimp. The one walmart has bulk Fed, 100 rnd .223, but its cheap stuff at regular price, Like $42 for the 100!

Looks like a road trip may be in order! Good score Cecil!!!
 
tcecil88 said:
I know it is not the 55 gr. M193 round we were talking about, but I got a 420 rd. can of Federal American Eagle M855 62 gr. ball at Wally World for $164. The same can at Gander Mountain is $229 and Dick's is $200.


Great score on some very high quality ammunition for training, practice and plinking! I'm like Brad, I had no idea Wally World sold cans of bulk ammo! I hear that there are even some around these United States that sell reloading presses and equipment!!!!!!!!! That's just crazy talk. :mrgreen:
 
Seriously? Reloading stuff too? Dang man...

Some of the sporting goods stores around here sell higher end .223, like Hornady for example, and those are the only places that sell the Winchester Varminter rounds, but man they want a premium!

My LGS sells 5.56, but not bulk. There is only one WlaMart I know of sorta near here I go to when I go to the farm about 45 miles away that carries Bushmaster AR's and they dont even sell 5.56. Everywhere around here is wiped out on ammo right now.

Fortunately, I dont wait till I'm out to purchase ammo. But I wont go shootin if i cant at least replace what I'll use. Heck, WalMart is even out of handgun ammo except for a few boxes of 9mm... I dont have a 9. Yet.
 
the ammo shelves at walmart are in pretty good shape here. But around last election, they were stripped clean.

I was thinking about buying some ammo later today actually.

I haven't seen any cases of ammo here, but they do have some pretty good prices on TULA 7.62x39 for $5 a box/20. I haven't seen it that low in a while.

Well, I have, but only online, where you pay $5 a box, PLUS orm/d shipping to get it here so this is like buying online, and getting free shipping.

I already have "some" 7.62x39, but a few more boxes isn't going to hurt.
 
Hey John, check Palmettto State Armory, I believe theyre still runnin free shipping, but their inventory is low right now. They have had really decent prices on stuff like PMC, and I have often purchased ammo from them.

Their shipping around here, and I imagine to you as well, is only $6, and has been no matter what I have ordered from or how much. Theyre in SC so our zone is pretty close. Additionally, their prices are typically better than say CTD.

Nevermind, just checked. Theyre way out of stock on alot of stuff, especially bulk mil-ammo.
 
Rossignol said:
tcecil88 said:
I know it is not the 55 gr. M193 round we were talking about, but I got a 420 rd. can of Federal American Eagle M855 62 gr. ball at Wally World for $164. The same can at Gander Mountain is $229 and Dick's is $200.

:shock: ARE YOU KIDDIN ME!!! :shock: At WalMart!!! The M855 steel core penetrator!? Man, where the heck do you live? Our WalMart, I was there last night, The shelves are bare and they have never sold bulk 5.56! The best they have is 20 round boxes of Rem and Fed .223 FMJ, not boat tail, not cannelure except for the crimp. The one walmart has bulk Fed, 100 rnd .223, but its cheap stuff at regular price, Like $42 for the 100!

Looks like a road trip may be in order! Good score Cecil!!!


WalMart said it was a new item. I got the only one they had. It does not say steel core penetrator, although the 800 round can at Gander does. It is $400. How is that price?
The WalMart that has the good ammo selection does not sell guns, but th WalMart that I bought my M400 at does not have a very good ammo selection. Go figure. :?
 
My walmart sells both guns and ammo.

Thankfully.
 
My walmart also sells both, mainly Rem and Mossy shotguns, some .22 rifles, a couple lever actions, Savage, Mossberg, and Remington rifles, like .270 and .30-06. They sometimes have the base model Mini 14.

The 800 rounds for $400 isnt too bad. .50 cents a round is only slightly higher than I typically buy mil-5.56 for, usually .45 cents a round. Doesnt seem youre saving much for the bulk purchase.

You could likely do better by ordering online though.

Dang, cant keep track of what I'm typin... I'm goin to bed.
 
I have been shopping around some online and retail. Alot of places are sold out.
Natchez Shooter's Supply seems pretty good. As a matter of fact, I just ordered a 1000 rd. box of Federal M193 55 gr. from Natchez for $378 shipped. I feel pretty good about that price. At $349 before shipping, that is .34 cents a round.
I figure I had better get it while the getting is good. :)
 
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