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All Things Shockwave

Rossignol

The Original Sheriff
Global Moderator
Sponsor
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All discussion goes. The good the bad, my bad attitude sometimes... lights, lasers, and how the hell are people aiming these things?

I really want to see range reports, photos, patterns; I need something tangible.

If I may borrow from NutNFancy, what the philosophy of use with the shockwave?

I’m seeing hip firing openly advocated. Which to me doesn’t make sense. The only person I’ve ever seen advocate for a shooting style that didn’t look down the sights was Massad Ayoob and even then he used a gun with a stock.

I’m really interested in the shockwave. As of yet, I’ve not been able to confirm that we can get them in Ohio.

I’ve seen some photos of the shockwave with a full length rail and a laser where a sight should go. How does that work?

As for the bad attitude, I apologize in advance. I’m still in recovery.
 
I'm all in Brad.

Still waiting for what it does that much better than ?????

FUN? Sure.

Effective? My eyes are open to any positive results from shotgunners.

Shotgunners.

Shotgunners.
 
annnnnnd that's where you lose me.

Lost as in you don’t know who that is or lost you as in you do know who that is but you can’t stand him so the invocation of his name turns you off? Either way, the phrase “philosophy of use” is still applicable. It’s relevant.

I'm all in Brad.

Still waiting for what it does that much better than ?????

FUN? Sure.

Effective? My eyes are open to any positive results from shotgunners.

Shotgunners.

Shotgunners.

I love shotguns. By far, my favorite of firearms. I love learning how to push the limits of my shotguns.
 
Good questions, Rossignol. I've posted my Shockwave perspectives on several threads but let me summarize a few points for your consideration.

My primary use for the Shockwave is as a work gun. Previously used a Mossberg 500 with an 18.5 inch barrel and a 13 LOP. Carry it on tractors and on foot when working in the woods. Threats range from black bears to mountains lions to coyotes. The Shockwave's size enhances both the carry on the tractors utilizing a scabbard or when working on foot in the woods.

While I'm on the far side of 70 I have no issues aiming or shooting the Shockwave. Ammunition types I'm shooting range from bird shot (mostly practice) to 00 buckshot and 3 inch Brenneke bear slugs (everyday carry). However, practice is essential to being able to aim and accutarely fire this weapon, "especially on repetitive shots." My Shockwave is unmodified other than grip tape which enhances the grip especially in wet conditions.

Secondary, and lesser use is facility defense. While lasers have their place on certain pistols when used in conjunction with a flashlight, I personally don't understand their use with shotguns. To me, lasers may enhance aiming but certainly don't replace the weapon's fixed sights for target acquisition.

At night, if you're using only a laser in a defensive situation I don't understand how you can have positive recognition or identification of the target, as either friendly or foe. To me, we all have both a moral and legal responsibility to positively identify the target before firing. Without use of a flashlight I don't understand how you can assure positive identification. Please educate me if I'm wrong. The only scenario where I could see no need for a flashlight would be if you're using NVGs.

In bright sunlight a laser, from my experience, is essentially useless at anything other than very short distances. Most lasers I've seen or used on pistols are washed out at distances more than 15 to 20 feet in bright light conditions. Plus initial target acquisition can be much quicker utilizing either iron or peep sights vice chasing a laser. Question is are you looking at and assessing the threat situation or looking for the laser pointer. Must be careful of tunnel vision.

I suppose in a fixed barricade situation inside a facility, where you might be defending an entry point, a laser would certainly enhance aiming at that fixed point from your fixed position.

Shooting from the hip, if the immediate threat situation so dictates, can be done with either a pistol or shoulder fired weapon. However, it takes lots of practice to develop the technique and consistently hit the intended target. Many shoot high when learning. I'd only do this if the immediate threat situation precludes an aimed shot. But you should practice it just in case.

Been shooting shotguns for around 60 years so maybe I'm old school so no disrespect to those who have a different perspective. To me, a Shockwave is a basic weapon requiring a few new skill sets as compared to using a shoulder fired shotgun. Does it have a place, absolutely. Is it a replacement for either a pistol or shoulder fired weapon, maybe yes and maybe no.
Regards.
 
I watched Clint Smiths video several times before I bought my Shockwave and that’s how I run mine. More of a point shooting gun than aiming. I carry mine everyday in my truck. I have an extended cab Ford Ranger and I built a rack that attaches to the cab just under the rear window behind the passenger seat. Easy to grab if the need arises. To me, if you’re trying to find a justification for buying a Shockwave or Tac14 then you might be better off passing it up. In my mind it is a compact, up close and personal defense gun that compliments your handgun of choice. As mentioned it takes a fair amount of practice to use the Shockwave with any proffeciency so if you’re not willing or unable to put the time in I would definitely recommend passing it up.
 
I watched Clint Smiths video several times before I bought my Shockwave and that’s how I run mine.

I did the same thing and still refer to his video as a refresher and I will also refer his video to the new SW shooter....

For me the Shockwave is for up close personal work so I don`t bother pattern testing any further than 21ft (the distance from my hallway to the front door). At this time I`m running NSI 2 1/4" 6 pellet 00, it patterns well in close quarters and the low recoil makes for fast follow up shots. It`s my intentions to keep it light as possible so other than the side saddle I won`t be making many tactical additions. I`m 60 years old and aware of my limitation so I won`t be taking the fight outside and all entries are backlit giving me the advantage....The SW is my night time go to weapon but I also have the 88 and my sidearm at the ready.
 
I'm all in Brad.

Still waiting for what it does that much better than ?????

FUN? Sure.

Effective? My eyes are open to any positive results from shotgunners.

Shotgunners.

Shotgunners.
Not “much better than”, think of it “as in addition to”. The SW is a tool that serves a narrow purpose. Kind of like adding a specialized wrench to your tool box. Yes, a pair of pliers or adjustable wrench might will get the job done. Maybe you’ll bugger up threads or round the nut in the process but you’ll get it done. Yes, you can use an over under, side by side, shoulder fired shotgun to serve the niche that the Shockwave fills but you’d be hard pressed to use that same shotgun from the cab of a truck or car or in a closet or small corner of a house, shed or garage, tight spaces etc.

If you’re waiting on traditional shotgunners to give the Shockwave credibility then I’m afraid you’ll be waiting a while. First off the Shockwave isn’t a shotgun and I think that’s where most folks get into trouble with this gun. In order to use it the way it’s intended it has to be thought of as a firearm that serves a specific purpose and you have to train with it as such. Yes, it fires shotgun shells but it is in no way a shotgun. Hope that makes sense. So, if you take this thing out and train with it as an extension of yourself as we train with any close combat weapon you will be on the path to Shockwave nirvana because in close combat is where this firearm shines.
 
A point on the Clint Smith video;

He does say to “point” the gun several times over. He also says to see the sight. He is in fact aiming the firearm.
 
Steve McQueen was known for his Mare’s Leg in the TV show Wanted Dead or Alive. He would be seen sometimes aiming the gun and sometimes shooting from the hip. He was proficient either way.
Mare’s Leg owners today will tell you how much fun it is to shoot them both ways, admitting that they need to be aimed for the best accuracy.
The Shock Wave is no different than the Mare’s Leg. We can talk for days about the practicality of the Mare’s Leg, or lack of it. Sometimes we need to stop trying to over analyze a gun and focus mostly on being proficient with the weapon in whatever shooting style you choose. Don’t let anyone try to change you mind on what is right or wrong. Instead become proficient in its use, aiming, or hip shots if you choose.
Perhaps part of the charm of hip shooting is because of old Western movies, but I grew up on Cowboys and Indians, and I will shoot my Shockwave both ways.Wanted%20Dead%20or%20Alive.jpg
 
I would say until you in fact have a Shockwave in your hands and work with it you won’t comprehend what Smith is referring to. Yes, you point and aim the gun but not in the traditional sense. When I aim my Shockwave I’m looking down the side of the barrel. My eyes pick up the XS Big Dot on the end of the barrel and is only a reference point. Meaning, for me, the front sight gets me in the general direction of the target. It is impossible to reliably hit any target with the SW without lots of practice. In the end it’s up to you whether you want to put the time in to get the most out of the SW. I put at least 50 rounds a month through mine. I have my own gun range so that helps. It is definitely a gun that requires regular practice to use effectively. But man is it worth it! All I can say is if you want one get one, if you don’t then don’t buy one. If you can borrow one to shoot that’s even better. No picture of patterns, glowing reviews or another’s justification can get you there.
A point on the Clint Smith video;

He does say to “point” the gun several times over. He also says to see the sight. He is in fact aiming the firearm.
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I bought my Shockwave the first week of June, and have tested various loads at various ranges. I agree there is a learning curve to shooting accurately. It is up to each gun owner to spend time and patience with the Shockwave, but it will be a lot of fun in the process. I'm fortunate to have a gun range in my back yard too. The backstop is about shot to pieces and I am hoping to rebuild it in the spring.....and shoot it up all over again.
IMG_5094.JPG
 
I believe the shockwave draws people to them because they're short, and it reminds them of a sawed off shotgun (which they think they can't have).

And in all truth and fairness, it costs $200 to legally pay the exemption tax to make a form 1 and create a short barreled shotgun on a $150 pawn shop gun and that also gives you the ability to add a stock and shoulder and shoot the gun normally. And if you already own a shotgun that you'd like to shorten, cuts that initial cost down even more since most of us already own a shotgun/(s). Just me, but that's where I'm at on it. I think that SBS'ing an existing gun is a better option altogether.

Now, I'm not saying the shockwave is bad, because I don't think it is. And I'm sure that most of the people buying them just doesn't want the hassle. I've been on that fence with certain guns before too. But I look at it from the perspective of what do I get for my money's worth? A sawed off shotgun pistol for $350-$400? Or a bonafide legit sawed off shoulder fired shotgun that I already own and know is reliable and dependable for ~$250 after I pay the tax and have it engraved?

This?

50659-catalog.jpg


OR THIS for about the same price?

Factory-short-barreled-shotgun.jpg
 
For me, the decision would be based on the hassle of NFA paperwork and the added cost. As it is, I’ve contacted both the local sheriffs department and the states attorney generals office and neither can tell me why we can’t get the shockwave. So the NFA at this time with the SBS is still the only thing available. I have no plan to go that route and if I could get the shockwave, it would be because it’s there and I can.
 
So i've finally begun dicking around with my shockwave to try and find where it fits in life and what its uses may be.

Firing at eye level works fine. That's limited to outdoors stuff in my opinion. Requires a kinda weird stance and an outspread elbow.

Atarted firing it from chest level out to about 30-40 feet and found it points very naturally. I was peppering an old washing machine with ease, the wad was hitting it as well as the shot. I think in an in-home situation I'd be holding it at close contact the whole time, which gives it a pretty decent advantage over a full length shotgun or a stocked shotgun.

When moving inside through doors, you'd bring a full shotgun into close contact as you pass through the threshold, then back out, same as with a handgun. The advantage here is you don't have the stock stuck under your armpit, and you dont have additional barrel hanging out in front of you.
 
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