As citizens, we SHOULD protect what is ours.
The rest of your reply is something else altogether.
Berkeley Riot
- Thread starter CaddmannQ
- Start date
As citizens, we SHOULD protect what is ours.
The rest of your reply is something else altogether.
I'll play along for now.
Thats a great idea. All the criminal illegals on death row. The illegal repeat sex offenders....start with them.....
....then what happens...
MrNrdy
.22LR
Why Not... It is as good as any. All I know is everyone seems to think that the "they or them" should solve this problem, instead of saying I, or we, or you need to take action. The time for talking, and "voting" in what always turn out to be nothing but another self serving, flip flop, stands for nothing money grabing politician/s is over. It is time for men of action to get off there asses and put boot to ass and start sorting people out. If history teaches us anything, despite what your mom might have told you, violence does indeed solve problems, and is sometimes the correct answer.
"The more things are forbidden, the more popular they become." ~ Mark Twain
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Which people are you talking about? No one is saying execute anyone but follow OUR damned laws like we're expected to in other countries. That's no asking too much, is it? Maybe a few politician heads on stakes would be sufficient. Vigilante-ism is exactly what some groups want us to do to incite another internal war so outside groups can step in. I.e., the UN. Those I would have no problem stepping up against.
BTW, what the hell is wrong with this site? S-L-O-W is an understatement. I type and then watch the letters pop up 20-30 secs later...
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I don't know but it seems to be running okay for me.
I am not for Mass executions and I am not for mass deptations and I am not for any policy which causes huge expense for the country.
My theory is that we're better off if we can get these people to stay here, and pay up, then become citizens.
Mexico has already claimed that they will welcome the dreamers back with open arms and special programs.
I think it's wonderful if they would actually do this, but of course everybody knows it's mostly rhetoric and very few people will choose to return to Mexico under those circumstances.
Mexico will welcome some back with open arms and special programs, and then send them a bill for it. Americans don't realize this but the Mexicans do. Because of this I think participation will not be great unless we literally do Deport masses of people.
Personally I think of this as segregative and in my mind segregation is always a bad thing. It's bad because it's a symptom of peoples who can't get along with each other. That's the real issue of course. If everyone could get along there would be a no race segregation.
But there would still be cultural segregation because you would have rich people and poor people as always.
I am not for Mass executions and I am not for mass deptations and I am not for any policy which causes huge expense for the country.
My theory is that we're better off if we can get these people to stay here, and pay up, then become citizens.
Mexico has already claimed that they will welcome the dreamers back with open arms and special programs.
I think it's wonderful if they would actually do this, but of course everybody knows it's mostly rhetoric and very few people will choose to return to Mexico under those circumstances.
Mexico will welcome some back with open arms and special programs, and then send them a bill for it. Americans don't realize this but the Mexicans do. Because of this I think participation will not be great unless we literally do Deport masses of people.
Personally I think of this as segregative and in my mind segregation is always a bad thing. It's bad because it's a symptom of peoples who can't get along with each other. That's the real issue of course. If everyone could get along there would be a no race segregation.
But there would still be cultural segregation because you would have rich people and poor people as always.
I don't feel that it is a "race" issue.
It's about right and wrong.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and to continue wrong is: wrong.
Do I blame the children that their parents smuggled them in?
No.
Do I blame the adults that did it?
Yes. I do.
Do I blame the once children that are now adults and have done nothing about it?
Yes again.
They weren't of the legal age to do anything about it when they were minors, but after they come of age, they have a choice to make.
Apply for citizenship, or be illegal.
And making the choice to NOT do anything about it to become a legal citizen, is a choice to remain illegally. This is just basic logic.
In my opinion, those should be escorted out and be forever barred from becoming a citizen since they obviously don't want to be.
I'm not against LEGAL and controlled immigration.
I am very strongly against ILLEGAL immigration.
Undocumented immigrant = ILLEGALLY here.
Anything else is a direct attack on a nations sovereignty.
This is how I see this issue.
If you're not supposed to be here, and disregard our laws and immigration laws, you really should leave.
It's about right and wrong.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and to continue wrong is: wrong.
Do I blame the children that their parents smuggled them in?
No.
Do I blame the adults that did it?
Yes. I do.
Do I blame the once children that are now adults and have done nothing about it?
Yes again.
They weren't of the legal age to do anything about it when they were minors, but after they come of age, they have a choice to make.
Apply for citizenship, or be illegal.
And making the choice to NOT do anything about it to become a legal citizen, is a choice to remain illegally. This is just basic logic.
In my opinion, those should be escorted out and be forever barred from becoming a citizen since they obviously don't want to be.
I'm not against LEGAL and controlled immigration.
I am very strongly against ILLEGAL immigration.
Undocumented immigrant = ILLEGALLY here.
Anything else is a direct attack on a nations sovereignty.
This is how I see this issue.
If you're not supposed to be here, and disregard our laws and immigration laws, you really should leave.
MrNrdy
.22LR
That sounds good but in reality won't happen. Most 18-25 year-olds out there have a hard time scraping up money for gas and food and living expenses. Usually asking mom and dad for help. If not still living at home. You think they can afford to go through the naturalization process and costs? Do you know how much it costs? I do... I regularly hear from people that go through the legal process to become residents, and that alone runs $15-$25k. Then even more to complete the citizenship process. Only way we can make them citizens is to waive those fees.... But then we will just have new citizens that are still poor on our welfare systems. There are no easy answers. But we need to choose something and get it going.
"The more things are forbidden, the more popular they become." ~ Mark Twain
I guess it all depends on what you value your freedom(s). If you want something bad enough, you'll aspire to achieve it. And you'll make sacrifices along the way to do so.
If they don't want to put forth the effort and sacrifice a little to be a citizen and for what all America has to offer, why should citizens sacrifice for them?
I still hold to my opinions.
If they don't want to put forth the effort and sacrifice a little to be a citizen and for what all America has to offer, why should citizens sacrifice for them?
I still hold to my opinions.
I was going to do another edit, but decided this question was important enough to send out a notification.
I imagine a lot of that is slimey lawyer fees? Yes?
And not actual cost to what is required by the Government. Coincidentally, there is also a waiver for those who cannot afford it mentioned in this link below.
https://www.us-immigration.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-apply-for-us-citizenship
I imagine a lot of that is slimey lawyer fees? Yes?
And not actual cost to what is required by the Government. Coincidentally, there is also a waiver for those who cannot afford it mentioned in this link below.
https://www.us-immigration.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-apply-for-us-citizenship
It is probably costing us $10,000 to $200,000 apiece and up, to arrest, jail, prosecute, defend, and deport illegals. No one will tell us how many of them there really are, and no one will tell us how much it really costs, one way or another. All of those matters are hidden from public purview as a matter of course, by a government which does not want to be held responsible for its actions.
Now I feel for them a little bit, because the government gets held responsible for the f****** weather nowadays! But there are too many rats in that attic for me to feel really bad about any. Drain the swamp, fumigate the Attic. Whatever.
And while immigration's not a race issue (or a cultural issue) but a legal issue, our politicians and media have managed to make it one.
Bastoids! It's politicians using race hatred as leverage against their opponents that is causing most of the racial unrest in America.
The rest of it is caused by crime, which is what we really need to address here. But I don't think we need to deport people who are not making their living as criminals. If some guy is changing Mufflers or some woman is doing the books in a little Motel, we need to have some pity on them, because my ancestors came here under similar circumstances.
The British didn't really want the Irish around and if they were all to die out in a big famine, well so what? And they fled from poverty and prosecution, and became Americans.
How times have changed since those days . . .
People come here to live and work but they don't become Americans! They segregate. The wave the Mexican flag. They wave the Congolese flag . . . who knows what they wave?
They and their ancestors may have been running from the same things that mine were, but times are much different nowadays. Mexico may be poor by United States standards, but compared to 18th & 19th century Ireland it's a much different life!
Realism is important to me but I was brought up as a Baptist. Love your enemy & all that stuff . . .
We need to have a heart, but we also need to defend ourselves and do what makes economic sense for our country. IMO that is to keep the good, ones, toss the bad ones, and get them in general to become proud taxpaying Americans.
But in my mind three things have to happen.
They have to deal with the US immigration court and pay a fine. We can make it like a traffic ticket where you just send it in the mail. If you have to borrow the money from some chattel mortgage broker, well tough s***. We're not going to put you up in jail and feed you. Pay the fine or we drop you off in Tijuana. Or worse.
They have to get a social security number and come above-the-table. People working under-the-table because they're illegals won't work. If you're not paying taxes you get deported.
They have to take citizenship classes, and if necessary English classes, and really necessary: classes in how to be American.
These things do not have to be expensive, but they have to be required.
They have to keep their nose clean regardless of what trouble their cousin Jaime might be in. Anything more than a minor misdemeanor conviction would be treated very harshly and probably by deportation.
Drugs, gangs, firearm violence, those equal swift deportation.
Separate the real dreamers from the bums please.
Now I feel for them a little bit, because the government gets held responsible for the f****** weather nowadays! But there are too many rats in that attic for me to feel really bad about any. Drain the swamp, fumigate the Attic. Whatever.
And while immigration's not a race issue (or a cultural issue) but a legal issue, our politicians and media have managed to make it one.
Bastoids! It's politicians using race hatred as leverage against their opponents that is causing most of the racial unrest in America.
The rest of it is caused by crime, which is what we really need to address here. But I don't think we need to deport people who are not making their living as criminals. If some guy is changing Mufflers or some woman is doing the books in a little Motel, we need to have some pity on them, because my ancestors came here under similar circumstances.
The British didn't really want the Irish around and if they were all to die out in a big famine, well so what? And they fled from poverty and prosecution, and became Americans.
How times have changed since those days . . .
People come here to live and work but they don't become Americans! They segregate. The wave the Mexican flag. They wave the Congolese flag . . . who knows what they wave?
They and their ancestors may have been running from the same things that mine were, but times are much different nowadays. Mexico may be poor by United States standards, but compared to 18th & 19th century Ireland it's a much different life!
Realism is important to me but I was brought up as a Baptist. Love your enemy & all that stuff . . .
We need to have a heart, but we also need to defend ourselves and do what makes economic sense for our country. IMO that is to keep the good, ones, toss the bad ones, and get them in general to become proud taxpaying Americans.
But in my mind three things have to happen.
They have to deal with the US immigration court and pay a fine. We can make it like a traffic ticket where you just send it in the mail. If you have to borrow the money from some chattel mortgage broker, well tough s***. We're not going to put you up in jail and feed you. Pay the fine or we drop you off in Tijuana. Or worse.
They have to get a social security number and come above-the-table. People working under-the-table because they're illegals won't work. If you're not paying taxes you get deported.
They have to take citizenship classes, and if necessary English classes, and really necessary: classes in how to be American.
These things do not have to be expensive, but they have to be required.
They have to keep their nose clean regardless of what trouble their cousin Jaime might be in. Anything more than a minor misdemeanor conviction would be treated very harshly and probably by deportation.
Drugs, gangs, firearm violence, those equal swift deportation.
Separate the real dreamers from the bums please.
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Then set them up with a program similar to student loans. Give them time to pay off the debt. It doesn't need to be paid up front and gives them a valid reason to keep working. That is something I could support at this time.
One thing to keep in mind regarding what the police are authorized to do when it comes to rounding up illegals.
Unless there is a state law in effect that clearly spells out the jurisdictional authority of local cops to enforce immigration law (which is Federal) then a city, county, or state cop cannot do shit.
Alabama (one of the most RED states in the USA) actually passed a law about five years ago that gave any cop in the state the authority to take a suspected individual into custody until it could be determined what their status was, based solely on their lack of ID or inability to speak any English or have any documentation that they had a passport or visa or work permit. If they were suspected of being here illegally the feds were to be called to prosecute/deport that person. Over 75% of the time the feds said they didn't have time or manpower to come investigate or transport. After 72 hours that person could no longer be detained.
And when the individual was kicked out of jail back into society they got a .gov paper printed from the feds explaining in 13 languages how they can file a civil rights complaint against the officer who brought them in for suspicion of illegal immigration. Know who investigates civil rights violations?????
The EFFIN Federal Bureau of Investigation... the FBI. Against the cop who thought he should take a person to jail to be checked by the feds.
Anyway, that state law was decimated by the state supreme court and the law lost all its teeth and cops (not feds) just let it go.
If you did not know the difficulty that the THIN BLUE LINE has gone thru about this issue, then I hope that you now have a better understanding.
Please don't bitch that cops need to step up and start doing their job.
If you still think that local cops don't care or are lazy or won't follow the law, I really am sad that you are so ignorant.
Unless there is a state law in effect that clearly spells out the jurisdictional authority of local cops to enforce immigration law (which is Federal) then a city, county, or state cop cannot do shit.
Alabama (one of the most RED states in the USA) actually passed a law about five years ago that gave any cop in the state the authority to take a suspected individual into custody until it could be determined what their status was, based solely on their lack of ID or inability to speak any English or have any documentation that they had a passport or visa or work permit. If they were suspected of being here illegally the feds were to be called to prosecute/deport that person. Over 75% of the time the feds said they didn't have time or manpower to come investigate or transport. After 72 hours that person could no longer be detained.
And when the individual was kicked out of jail back into society they got a .gov paper printed from the feds explaining in 13 languages how they can file a civil rights complaint against the officer who brought them in for suspicion of illegal immigration. Know who investigates civil rights violations?????
The EFFIN Federal Bureau of Investigation... the FBI. Against the cop who thought he should take a person to jail to be checked by the feds.
Anyway, that state law was decimated by the state supreme court and the law lost all its teeth and cops (not feds) just let it go.
If you did not know the difficulty that the THIN BLUE LINE has gone thru about this issue, then I hope that you now have a better understanding.
Please don't bitch that cops need to step up and start doing their job.
If you still think that local cops don't care or are lazy or won't follow the law, I really am sad that you are so ignorant.
They say justice is blind but in this case it is turning a blind eye toward the illegal actions of some. Enter illegally then all your actions from then on are illegal. Unless your Pelosi who said:
Nancy Pelosi, how does she keep getting elected ? She is part of the problem, not the solution.
I like to say that it's because half the people in California are half stoned all the time, and the other half are just half stupid.
But the problem really is that the people here have been sold a Ponzi scheme, and the Democrats run it here.
By flooding California with aliens, and then letting them vote, they are guaranteed that California will be the most populous and influential state in the nation. At that point Calif can just force the country to be like us compassionate Californians.
Of course the public doesn't see this at all. To them it appears that our politicians are the most caring understanding and compassionate people in the world and they desire only to protect us and to raise the status of the poor.
That's The Power of really good publicity.
But the problem really is that the people here have been sold a Ponzi scheme, and the Democrats run it here.
By flooding California with aliens, and then letting them vote, they are guaranteed that California will be the most populous and influential state in the nation. At that point Calif can just force the country to be like us compassionate Californians.
Of course the public doesn't see this at all. To them it appears that our politicians are the most caring understanding and compassionate people in the world and they desire only to protect us and to raise the status of the poor.
That's The Power of really good publicity.
Bobster
.30-06
Here is my take on the DACA "issue"...
You have a number of people brought here as "children" illegally. Technically, the child did not do anything illegal, the parents did. I will use a Mexican family for my example but some "dreamers" have come from other countries, as well. But the majority have come from Mexico. It may be true that the child can not speak Spanish but I doubt that very much if the child is/was living in a household where Spanish is the main and perhaps only language spoken there. I am also certain the majority of dreamers know their parents are illegal and that their own status is tenuous. Trump was correct in sending the issue to Congress and be sure to let your elected officials know how you feel about the subject.
(1) We need to eliminate birthright citizenship immediately. To be born a citizen, both parents need to be citizens or well into the process thereof, period. This will eliminate the "anchor" baby problem and illegal immigrants that take advantage of it.
(2) When the new "dreamer" law is passed, any child brought in after that date will no longer be eligible for dreamer status and will be considered an illegal along with the parents. This means NO public schools, lunches, housing, healthcare--you name it! Parents will be charged with child neglect and deported along with their kids. It will be a CRIME to bring your children into this country illegally punishable by deportation.
(3) Dreamers NEED a path to citizenship. NO POLITICIAN is going to deport them--that would be political suicide. This path will include documentation of when they arrived here, who their parents are, schools attended, jobs, etc. The dreamer will have to come clean. If they have been decent students, workers and residents, they can apply for citizenship. While in the process of becoming a citizen, a dreamer will NOT have rights as afforded to us by the Constitution. This means no protesting, no guns, etc. And the path to citizenship is just that and includes everything outlined HERE.
(4) Parents of successful dreamers can also apply for "legal status" but can NEVER vote or obtain government benefits. ONLY 2 parents or guardians can take advantage of this status-- no aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, fiances, etc. The difficult part will be what to do with the miscreant dreamers--jail here or deportation for them and/or their parents?
(5) 4+ years of honorable service in the military will convey instant citizenship (after the test).
For the most part I agree with everyone here, or not... These items will have to be included in a mega-immigration bill and current policy will have to change. Hopefully said bill will also include funding for border security and walls where needed.
You have a number of people brought here as "children" illegally. Technically, the child did not do anything illegal, the parents did. I will use a Mexican family for my example but some "dreamers" have come from other countries, as well. But the majority have come from Mexico. It may be true that the child can not speak Spanish but I doubt that very much if the child is/was living in a household where Spanish is the main and perhaps only language spoken there. I am also certain the majority of dreamers know their parents are illegal and that their own status is tenuous. Trump was correct in sending the issue to Congress and be sure to let your elected officials know how you feel about the subject.
(1) We need to eliminate birthright citizenship immediately. To be born a citizen, both parents need to be citizens or well into the process thereof, period. This will eliminate the "anchor" baby problem and illegal immigrants that take advantage of it.
(2) When the new "dreamer" law is passed, any child brought in after that date will no longer be eligible for dreamer status and will be considered an illegal along with the parents. This means NO public schools, lunches, housing, healthcare--you name it! Parents will be charged with child neglect and deported along with their kids. It will be a CRIME to bring your children into this country illegally punishable by deportation.
(3) Dreamers NEED a path to citizenship. NO POLITICIAN is going to deport them--that would be political suicide. This path will include documentation of when they arrived here, who their parents are, schools attended, jobs, etc. The dreamer will have to come clean. If they have been decent students, workers and residents, they can apply for citizenship. While in the process of becoming a citizen, a dreamer will NOT have rights as afforded to us by the Constitution. This means no protesting, no guns, etc. And the path to citizenship is just that and includes everything outlined HERE.
(4) Parents of successful dreamers can also apply for "legal status" but can NEVER vote or obtain government benefits. ONLY 2 parents or guardians can take advantage of this status-- no aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, fiances, etc. The difficult part will be what to do with the miscreant dreamers--jail here or deportation for them and/or their parents?
(5) 4+ years of honorable service in the military will convey instant citizenship (after the test).
For the most part I agree with everyone here, or not...
These items will have to be included in a mega-immigration bill and current policy will have to change. Hopefully said bill will also include funding for border security and walls where needed.
I think if one parent is a legal citizen and they are legally married and it is their child, that is enough for the baby to become a citizen.
However I don't just think Marrying an American citizen should make you an automatic American citizen, regardless of the baby. I think you must go before a judge, and he must find you of good character. If he doesn't, you're allowed to try other judges. The point is, someone besides your American spouse must examine you (at least in a cursory manner) and say okay, you can be an American, before you are granted permanent residency here. And I think you must still take "Americanism" classes to get your full citizenship, regardless of marriage.
Bob, it is now.
Oh, this is an interesting one! First I gotta wonder, legally, what constitutes protesting? You have to make a sign? Do you have to shout loudly? Or do you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Anybody can apply to be a citizen.
Parents can apply to come visit their adult children, when the child has achieved citizenship. Minor children should be with them at home in Mexico, or wherever. Someone with a green card does not get to apply to come visit someone else with the green card. The dreamer must be a citizen First.
And, they cannot stay past maybe 60 days, unless they complete a successful application for a green card or become a citizen.
By the way, we don't have to send back babies. People are standing in line to adopt babies. Once they're adopted by American citizens their noncitizen former parents lose all rights and a kid becomes a citizen.
If parents in a foreign country want their kid back later, we send them a bill for that kid's upkeep instead, with a note that says no, you don't get the kid back ever; and until this bill is paid you have no chance of ever entering the USA yourself.
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If you listen to the politicians you would think we are talking about kids under the age of 5 years old, when in fact these folks are mostly in their late teens and early 20s.
There is one thing I would like to know. If these people are so proud of their heritage that they want to bring their customs and culture to the USA, why don't they just stay home ? Could it be we have a beautiful country, or we have generous social programs, or maybe excellent educational facilities ?
It is also very easy for politicians, primarily dems to cherry pick individuals and parade them in front of the news media to show how they have served in the military, got an education, etc , etc.
The fact is, every one of the dreamers are competing with citizens of this country for jobs, education, and social programs.
There is one thing I would like to know. If these people are so proud of their heritage that they want to bring their customs and culture to the USA, why don't they just stay home ? Could it be we have a beautiful country, or we have generous social programs, or maybe excellent educational facilities ?
It is also very easy for politicians, primarily dems to cherry pick individuals and parade them in front of the news media to show how they have served in the military, got an education, etc , etc.
The fact is, every one of the dreamers are competing with citizens of this country for jobs, education, and social programs.