Civil War II

[rjpoog1989]

I truly believe that we have become a nation divided. I think it is crazy that Obama is going to such measures as 23 executive orders with the hope of saving a few lives. For the sake of my point, lets give him the benefit of the doubt, and say he does save a few lives with these orders. If this does cause a civil war, how many millions will die? If i remember correctly the first Civil War took the lives of 7 million.

Also, say there is a war is looming, how is it going to be fought? I would assume conventionally because I doubt we'd be nuking each other. How will the sides be established, by state? Republican vs Democrat? What I don't want to fight for my state, can I switch sides? I don't trust Pennsylvania to be on the right side of this, too many Philly city liberals, and I can't say I'd fight for the Republican party either...

I truly hope this is not in our future, but I do believe something is going to go down.

Thoughts?

 

[Tom396]

If i remember correctly the first Civil War took the lives of 7 million.

Thoughts?

"Remember"?! :shock: D*mn. Just how old are you? Take care. Tom Worthington.

 

[MikeD]

I hope it does not come down to that. In the first civil war man and soldier had basically the same arms. Due to laws today that is not the case by a long shot. Even with a split in the military those that stay with the state will have access to hardware, technology and communication that those that split will not. As it is now the bans do not apply to LEO or Military.

People will try every legal means first, but buy then it will be too late as we will have been stripped of what little we have anyway. It will then come down to rogue groups that will be labeled as domestic terrorists and hunted down.

If NYS can turn into England overnight wihout a revolt it can happen everywhere. Though I will be curious to see what happens when they actually start collecting their newly redefined "assault weapons"

 

[oli700]

There is a BIG difference between a civil war and a revolutionary war.
People get it mixed up all the time.

Most of us don’t want to fight our fellow Americans even if they don’t have the same opinion as us. I have no desire to go to war with Americans that want to take my guns. They can talk about it all they want, it’s their right to do so and I support their right to have their opinion. I encourage it in fact, at least they stand for something and as long as it remains opinion and doesn’t turn into droves of UNARMED hippies trying to confiscate my shit we can live side by side.

Now a revolution on the other hand is a bunch of citizen, or subjects if you will that are done with the current authority because the power to be has gone too far……a lot of gun owners can’t see the forest through the trees in this aspect. It’s the big picture…..it’s the economy, its guns, it’s the right to do whatever you want as long as you don’t harm anyone while you’re doing it, its knowing the government is doing the very things they throw us in jail for and throw away the key…..

There must be rules, but it’s been taken too far, we aren’t allowed to think for ourselves anymore.
We aren’t allowed to take responsibility for our actions anymore yet we are made to take responsibility for and pay the repercussions for what a few do, our children aren’t allowed to lose anymore, it’s the sting of loss that turns us into winners, it’s the struggle.

This country has become soft, and the government made us that way so they can control us……no sir my beef isn’t with Americans that have a different opinion than I do.

 

[rjpoog1989]

If i remember correctly the first Civil War took the lives of 7 million.

Thoughts?

"Remember"?! :shock: D*mn. Just how old are you? Take care. Tom Worthington.

History class was a long time ago lol but I do think I've heard that figure before at some point.

 

[carbinemike]

I look at the current ideological divide as bigger cities vs. rural, big government versus small government/states rights, pro Constitution vs European style socialism and on a bigger scale, the northeast cooridor (Richmond-Boston) plus the west coast vs. the heartland. Inside these areas you have the divides. In my state of PA, if you look at the voting, it was very much Philly/Pittsbugh metro areas versus the the rest of the state. Obama took the statewide vote. Obama took 15% of the land mass and Romney took 85%.

Another civil war would be horrible and the devastation would dwarf the 1st civil war. I don't see a clear border division. With the Philly crowd only separated from me by 1 county I'll be heading for the hills.

 

[Rossignol]

I agree with Oli here on his points about revolution and the govt as it stands. In fact its the basis of the post I made about the death of our representative govt.

Our govt is confiscatory in nature, the lawful bear the brunt of any legislation aimed to curb undesirable behavior. Our tax system takes from net producers to give to net takers/consumers. Hmm, "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" comes to mind, which is Marx by the way.

Our govt bleeds hipocrissy as Oli pointed out, we're punished for the same behaviors elitist partake of everyday. This reminds me of "let them eat cake". While the bourgeoisie were supposedly the middle class, I think the current political class is of this ilk. Completely oblivious and out of touch with the reality of our times, but I believe these times are actually by design.

Our govt appears to be controled by the money. It isn't us, we the people, but it the extreme wealth that desires power and its consolidation, concentrated to the highest offices only.

We can't be controlled easily if we remain a well armed society, the plans of control have been ready to go for some time. They simply needed a tragedy, an excuse to begin ramming it through to get that ignorant 53% or so of the population to go along with it. The tragedy divides the country by making firearm ownership largely unpopular with those sheeple who will follow along lockstep with anything the administration does. Firearm owners are enmasse villainized.

What is 2+2? The answer is 5, its always been 5. They redefine everything. Success and wealth is criminal. Its ok to need public assistance. Examples go on and on, but its all upsidedown and backwards. It can be applied to the national debt and deficit as well, and also the stuff that passed to avoid the "fiscal cliff" which is actually anet spending bill, it adds more debt. Its also evidenced by how words are used to describe what they want to control. Do any of you actually own an "assault weapon"? If it really is an assault weapon, how could it possibly be used for any legitimate purpose?

So where is the representation?

Remember when things like this would come up and we say, this couldn't possibly happen, and now we say we hope it doesn't happen? I too hope it doesn't. I sincerely don't see how events like tomorrow will help. They'll do what they want anyhow and I can't help but think how much easier things would be if wecould be blissfully unaware. How nice it would be to simply coast through life. I hope tomorrows events mean somethin. I like to think we still count for somethin.

 

[oli700]

So where is the representation?

They are empty shells once occupied by a human soul, that soul was traded for some money and puppet strings....be careful Brad, you’re starting to sound like me.........they don’t take kindly to free thinking

 

[Rossignol]

Oli, I've been a flag waiving patriot for a very long time, as long as I've been old enough to understand the Pledge of Allegiance and the sacrifice it took just to sign the Declaration of Independence.

I've long been able to see the hipocrissy of govt but remained optomistic in the process of public elections, that the ballot box could be used in a sense like a recall of elected officials.

My perceptions really began to change when I had to go through all that crap with the dog warden and while I had proof we were treating my all time favorite girl, having sold guns and cashing out my vacation time so I could afford the vet bills and ultimately cleared, the burden of proof was always on me which clearly is ass backwards. I'm told by friends who are close to some of the officials involved that I'm still viewed by them as having been guilty and as if I got away with somethin. They had already convicted me and still feel that way. Before charges were dropped, my girl had already been put down. They didn't even try to diagnos her, they waited 8 days after taking her before they even took her to the vet, which is what I was bein charged with, not having had her in the care of a vet. By the time they had her to a vet, they had had her sleeping on cold concrete, not the deer skin and heating pad I had her on, and she was dehydrated. When they took her she had both food and fresh water. How f*#&ed is that?

Further more, recent election results convinced me of what had previously only been suspected, that the system is whacked, like Alice in Wonderland. I'm am now a reformed believer.

 

[Rossignol]

Oh, I'm still a patriot in that I love my country in for which it was founded, and to that I still, pledge allegiance.

 

[oli700]

yeah sucks, but here we are.....long road ahead, lace your boots tight !

 

[Frank Castle]

I think we are starting to see the divide coming. The multiple states that are putting legislation in that they will not follow any federal gun control bans/legislation will in effects be the "Confederate South" of the previous Civil War. Potentially or at least threatening "Succession" (figurativly speaking). Lines are being drawn. At some point the power of few will be dwarfed by the many. I just pray it doesnt become physical, and the few will withdraw and go hide in a corner and lick their wounded pride.

Frank

 

[Water Monkey]

Gentlemen,

Make NO mistake I pray everyday that there will never be a time in my lifetime or my children's... etc. that we as a nation go to war with each other. It will be the bloodiest civil war ever recorded by man.

But if you guys are judging your feelings on current events... If there was going to be a civil war tomorrow it would not be over the right to own slaves and state rights. It will be over those who honor the constitution and want to remain free and lead themselves vs those who wish to rule with impunity and those who wish to follow.

Because of that there will be no "North vs South". It will be EVERYWHERE. And that's what scares the shit out of me.

 

[rjpoog1989]

Gentlemen,

Make NO mistake I pray everyday that there will never be a time in my lifetime or my children's... etc. that we as a nation go to war with each other. It will be the bloodiest civil war ever recorded by man.

Because of that there will be no "North vs South". It will be EVERYWHERE. And that's what scares the shit out of me.

This right here is why I brought this up.

 

[oli700]

It will be the bloodiest civil war ever recorded by man.

Because of that there will be no "North vs South". It will be EVERYWHERE.

This right here is why I brought this up.

OK, for the sake of conversation, who do you perceive as the enemy ?

 

[carbinemike]

Our govt appears to be controled by the money. It isn't us, we the people, but it the extreme wealth that desires power and its consolidation, concentrated to the highest offices only.

OK, for the sake of conversation, who do you perceive as the enemy ?[

I'll thow this out for conversation. Rossignol touched on it. Follow the money and it will lead to the enemy. People that we have rarely seen or heard directly from. International banking. Does the federal reserve serve us or do they serve another master? Do they serve as a conduit of money away from our country or to make us better? We are 16.5 trillion in debt. Where did that money go? Actually I should ask where did that wealth go? What do we as a nation have to show for it? Are we better off since we borrowed it? If I took my earnings plus borrowed half of that again every year I'd be up to my eyeballs in debt but I'd have some real neat stuff to show for it. We have nothing to show for it except the 2 wars and a hell of a lot of Obama phone/giveaways...but they are only a small part of that debt. Where did it go? Rossignol is right about big money driving DC but I think it goes farther. I think the DC elite and the U.N. are minions of the international money interests. They are the enemy but they'd love for us to think Joe down the street is. Think of how much wealth they could plunder with a dictatorship running things here? We have many enemies here but I think they are being led by the nose by something higher up and they don't even know it.

Any other ideas about the enemy? I'd love to hear them.

 

[LAZY EYED SNIPER]

Nope.

I think you put it very succinctly...

 

[Shoten]

There is a BIG difference between a civil war and a revolutionary war.
People get it mixed up all the time.

Most of us don’t want to fight our fellow Americans even if they don’t have the same opinion as us. I have no desire to go to war with Americans that want to take my guns. They can talk about it all they want, it’s their right to do so and I support their right to have their opinion. I encourage it in fact, at least they stand for something and as long as it remains opinion and doesn’t turn into droves of UNARMED hippies trying to confiscate my shit we can live side by side.

Now a revolution on the other hand is a bunch of citizen, or subjects if you will that are done with the current authority because the power to be has gone too far……a lot of gun owners can’t see the forest through the trees in this aspect. It’s the big picture…..it’s the economy, its guns, it’s the right to do whatever you want as long as you don’t harm anyone while you’re doing it, its knowing the government is doing the very things they throw us in jail for and throw away the key…..

There must be rules, but it’s been taken too far, we aren’t allowed to think for ourselves anymore.
We aren’t allowed to take responsibility for our actions anymore yet we are made to take responsibility for and pay the repercussions for what a few do, our children aren’t allowed to lose anymore, it’s the sting of loss that turns us into winners, it’s the struggle.

This country has become soft, and the government made us that way so they can control us……no sir my beef isn’t with Americans that have a different opinion than I do.

Very well put. My sentiments to the "T".

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[TravisM.1]

I agree with Oli here on his points about revolution and the govt as it stands. In fact its the basis of the post I made about the death of our representative govt.

Our govt is confiscatory in nature, the lawful bear the brunt of any legislation aimed to curb undesirable behavior. Our tax system takes from net producers to give to net takers/consumers. Hmm, "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" comes to mind, which is Marx by the way.

Our govt bleeds hipocrissy as Oli pointed out, we're punished for the same behaviors elitist partake of everyday. This reminds me of "let them eat cake". While the bourgeoisie were supposedly the middle class, I think the current political class is of this ilk. Completely oblivious and out of touch with the reality of our times, but I believe these times are actually by design.

Our govt appears to be controled by the money. It isn't us, we the people, but it the extreme wealth that desires power and its consolidation, concentrated to the highest offices only.

We can't be controlled easily if we remain a well armed society, the plans of control have been ready to go for some time. They simply needed a tragedy, an excuse to begin ramming it through to get that ignorant 53% or so of the population to go along with it. The tragedy divides the country by making firearm ownership largely unpopular with those sheeple who will follow along lockstep with anything the administration does. Firearm owners are enmasse villainized.

What is 2+2? The answer is 5, its always been 5. They redefine everything. Success and wealth is criminal. Its ok to need public assistance. Examples go on and on, but its all upsidedown and backwards. It can be applied to the national debt and deficit as well, and also the stuff that passed to avoid the "fiscal cliff" which is actually anet spending bill, it adds more debt. Its also evidenced by how words are used to describe what they want to control. Do any of you actually own an "assault weapon"? If it really is an assault weapon, how could it possibly be used for any legitimate purpose?

So where is the representation?

Remember when things like this would come up and we say, this couldn't possibly happen, and now we say we hope it doesn't happen? I too hope it doesn't. I sincerely don't see how events like tomorrow will help. They'll do what they want anyhow and I can't help but think how much easier things would be if wecould be blissfully unaware. How nice it would be to simply coast through life. I hope tomorrows events mean somethin. I like to think we still count for somethin.

This, right here ^^, is a guy who gets it.

 

[Rossignol]

Who is the enemy? This kinda like taxation without representation, but the last time they all had red coats.

The enemy is the man behind the curtain, the guy holding the strings and anyone willing to go along with it, anyone who went to washington with his own ideas and then sold out for the money and promise of power.

Its anyone trying to fundamentally change our govt by dismantling the Constitution whether via elected office or manipulation of the economy.

Nothing about a democratic republic suggests fairness in life or a trophy at every soccer game. Nothing about freedom and liberty to live and let live suggests evil can be legislted away. Its imperfect, hence the legal system, criminality is punished, but we're living a reality where lawful behavior is being punished. And to that point; the lawful are the enemies of those in power.