• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

DTOM Flag... apparently a NO-NO?!

aksavanaman

Work In Progress...
Supporter
"Philanthropist"
Let me start off with saying I'm usually quite unconfrontational, unless I have to be, and that includes my "political" views. While I believe that politics are a little more open to discussion than say faith and religion, I will at least listen to your point of view and give you the chance to impress me. I deal with the public on a regular basis and most of the time it's a very cooperative relationship. I've also had to play bad cop coastie on occasions, so I'm not unfamiliar with "hostile" situations if you want to call it that.

I picked up a black, regular sized, DTOM from Gadsen a couple months ago and decided I'd actually put it outside on the porch about two weeks ago. I logged in this morning to find an email from the Base Housing Officer (a retired Active Duty Coastie, now a Civilian running the office), to kindly tell me to "remove my political banner, because it violates base housing regulations".

Now, before we get into a "This is an outrage" discussion, I did read through the base housing manual and it does have a paragraph on signs, banners and flags. By trade I'm often interpreting law books as they apply to foreign and domestic vessels, therefore with my experience I could turn this into something big if I wanted to, since there really is no definition for "political banner" and therefore just the interpretation of the housing official here.

I told the wife to take it down, A. Because I only have a year left here in housing, B. I've got another baby on the way and don't want to start a political battle and C. I am in the military and therefore have to sometimes forgo certain rights... I did sign up for that after all.

My quarrel lies with the fact that I've had no issues so far in the 4 years I’ve been here. I'm a good tenant, I take care of the house and lawn and I don't have parties that bother neighbors (although the dogs might bark every so often). As far as I know, I still have my 1st amendment rights... but I could be wrong. I have seen other flags on people’s houses to include the recent pink equal sign that’s still hanging on a neighbor’s house. While I'm not here to discuss other person’s views on that subject (you are entitled to your own thinking)…how is THAT not a political banner?

Here was my reply to the housing officer:

Good Morning Mr. XXXXX,
While I disagree with your interpretation of the DTOM flag I recently hung on my porch, out of respect to our core values and your authority as the Housing Officer I have already taken it down as you requested. I do respectfully urge you to reconsider base policies on flags and banners that have personal meanings to its owners and residents, especially if they are meant for peaceful display of a person’s beliefs and thus protected under the 1st Amendment. I also would advise you to take a better look at other housing units that are currently displaying “political” banners around CG housing and base, as I feel it only to be fair that all residents are treated with equal scrutiny. I appreciate your consideration and time, and hope to have a continued professional relationship with your office for my time remaining in Kodiak.
Respectfully,
AKsavanaman (Substitute my name of course)

I’m curious what you guys think about this, especially those of you that have served yourself and know how the military works. While my reply certainly has an underlying meaning, I don’t think I was disrespectful. We’ll see if anything comes of it, and I’ve already discussed the matter with my command who has my back on the issue. I will not pursue the matter any further, unless the powers at be decide they want to.
 
aksavanaman said:
C. I am in the military and therefore have to sometimes forgo certain rights... I did sign up for that after all.

I pick answer C as the best one to apply.

You did the right thing. Hang it somewhere inside for now if you like or tuck it away for when you can hang it outside. Your response was fine and I'm glad you pointed out that other political displays exist.

I just picked up another DTOM flag myself. It goes great with my Betsy Ross flag.

I am not outraged by this but would be if you were on your own property or someone gave you a hassle for being in the service. By the way thanks for your service!
 
aksavanaman said:
Let me start off with saying I'm usually quite unconfrontational, unless I have to be, and that includes my "political" views. While I believe that politics are a little more open to discussion than say faith and religion, I will at least listen to your point of view and give you the chance to impress me. I deal with the public on a regular basis and most of the time it's a very cooperative relationship. I've also had to play bad cop coastie on occasions, so I'm not unfamiliar with "hostile" situations if you want to call it that.

I picked up a black, regular sized, DTOM from Gadsen a couple months ago and decided I'd actually put it outside on the porch about two weeks ago. I logged in this morning to find an email from the Base Housing Officer (a retired Active Duty Coastie, now a Civilian running the office), to kindly tell me to "remove my political banner, because it violates base housing regulations".

Now, before we get into a "This is an outrage" discussion, I did read through the base housing manual and it does have a paragraph on signs, banners and flags. By trade I'm often interpreting law books as they apply to foreign and domestic vessels, therefore with my experience I could turn this into something big if I wanted to, since there really is no definition for "political banner" and therefore just the interpretation of the housing official here.

I told the wife to take it down, A. Because I only have a year left here in housing, B. I've got another baby on the way and don't want to start a political battle and C. I am in the military and therefore have to sometimes forgo certain rights... I did sign up for that after all.

My quarrel lies with the fact that I've had no issues so far in the 4 years I’ve been here. I'm a good tenant, I take care of the house and lawn and I don't have parties that bother neighbors (although the dogs might bark every so often). As far as I know, I still have my 1st amendment rights... but I could be wrong. I have seen other flags on people’s houses to include the recent pink equal sign that’s still hanging on a neighbor’s house. While I'm not here to discuss other person’s views on that subject (you are entitled to your own thinking)…how is THAT not a political banner?

Here was my reply to the housing officer:

Good Morning Mr. XXXXX,
While I disagree with your interpretation of the DTOM flag I recently hung on my porch, out of respect to our core values and your authority as the Housing Officer I have already taken it down as you requested. I do respectfully urge you to reconsider base policies on flags and banners that have personal meanings to its owners and residents, especially if they are meant for peaceful display of a person’s beliefs and thus protected under the 1st Amendment. I also would advise you to take a better look at other housing units that are currently displaying “political” banners around CG housing and base, as I feel it only to be fair that all residents are treated with equal scrutiny. I appreciate your consideration and time, and hope to have a continued professional relationship with your office for my time remaining in Kodiak.
Respectfully,
AKsavanaman (Substitute my name of course)

I’m curious what you guys think about this, especially those of you that have served yourself and know how the military works. While my reply certainly has an underlying meaning, I don’t think I was disrespectful. We’ll see if anything comes of it, and I’ve already discussed the matter with my command who has my back on the issue. I will not pursue the matter any further, unless the powers at be decide they want to.

The base commander has the final say on this. I suspect that the housing officer is simply trying to avoid anything that may cause him some headaches, although it does appear he may have some bias as you noted. The Gadsden has been under fire from the left for quite a while and gets on the news fairly often, usually in connection with some demonstration or another, so I'm sure he's aware of that. He's likely more concerned with residents who he feels are challenging his authority, more than anything else. Waving his little sword around.
 
That was a very well worded response you sent the housing officer.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. But I hope he relents and allows the display of your flag.
 
Pretty nice diplomatic response. Unfortunately, probably also the best course of action. I remember a heated debate over bumper stickers with "political statements" on base with my sailors. The clear message was that we had first amendment rights, but an order to remove a sticker was lawful in order to support a unified front of the command. I never really agreed with that, but complied and supported compliance from others in order to keep peace. It just wasn't worth the fight at the time.
 
As anyone who has served knows, you give up a lot of "rights" when you sign the line. Uniformity and towing the line, if you will, are expected. Unfortunately, civilians make up many of the upper level posts on bases. They all have their little corner of turf and will run it as they see fit as long as it doesn't reflect badly on the base commander. They will also outlast any commanding officer that comes along. Pissing them off only leads to other ways for them to make your life miserable. Been there, done that. Your response was well thought out and written. Would like to hear any reply you may receive.
 
Honestly guys, I sort of expected this to happen when I put up the flag. And as I stated before, while I may not agree with his decision to make me take it down, I understand and abide by the rules, because it is my duty to do so. I would venture to say that someone around me decided they didn't like the flag, probably saw me take my firearms out of the car one day... who knows, but I'm sure it would've gone relatively unnoticed unless they received a complaint about it.

That's really the only reason I'd want to make sure that the "other political flags" also get attention. Let me be clear, I really couldn't give a crap what other people believe or what they decide to display... it is a free country and who would I be to deny them of their right to practice their freedom of speech. BUT, I won't stand for being singled out, and will be happy to point that out if the need arises.
 
My wife's been bugging me about getting out of housing for this reason. Lots of bored, petty, unhappy California wifes that live in housing. Always drama, and I'm definitely a NO-Drama kinda guy! One day soon I'll have a little place of my own... where I can fly any damn flag I want. Till then, I play along....
 
I hear ya. Base housing is a blessing and a curse. Here is one reason it is a curse...you live under a microscope...at least you can keep your weapons at home. I've been on some bases where you were requires to store them at the base armory...where all our well intentioned LE's could play with them.
 
Yeah, the housing here is a little different... we've got three different neighborhoods, one is within the confines of the actual base, and those guys do have to keep their weapons at the armory. I guess since we're not officially on base, we don't have to... although technically I think they're all supposed to have a lock on them and stored in a safe... which I totally do of course ;)
 
Got a response today:

Good Morning Petty Officer AKsavanaman,

Your cooperation in this matter has been appreciated and we are currently examining our base policies in regards to banners and flags to determine whether any changes need to be made. In the mean time, I have instructed other residents of base housing units to take down any politically affiliated materials as well. Thank you for your professional approach, and let us know if we can be of any help regarding housing issues in the future.

1 point for AK! I didn't tell you guys, I did go home on Wednesday and put the good old stars and stripes up in place of the DTOM... I saw the same on my neighbors porch this morning where the equal sign used to fly.

While the response from the housing officer makes me believe I won this argument, I'm perfectly fine with flying our National Ensign. I'm proud to serve this country afterall, and in the end...all the other families that live around me have to make those same sacrifices regardless of their personal views.
 
Back
Top