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First Impressions of my new 464 "Brush Gun"

R

RickC.

.22LR
I took Delivery today of my Davidson's special .30-30. It'll be a few days before I can get to the range, but after cleanup and Breakfree in the action, this is what I think- brand new, before firing.

1. Nice looking gun!

2. Sights are smaller than I had expected. I'll give them a fair shake at the range first, but I can see going with either a Skinner rear, a quality red dot, or a compact scope.

3. Action is smoother than I expected- but I was expecting really rough.

4. Trigger is heavier than I thought it would be, but for what I have planned for this rifle (shooting houses and tree stands with 150 yard max shots and intermediate range stands on dog drives) it may not make a huge difference.

5. It's going to be hard for me to get used to not having a half-cock on a lever gun, but I'll see how we get along. I'm not keen on the tang safety (just as I am not with the crossbolt on later Marlins and Winchesters) but I can see where it will be useful hunting from ladder stands and such.

6. Standard rifling as opposed to Microgroove. Both my Marlins hate the Hornady 160 FTX bullet. Maybe this little Mossberg will like it. I have some handloads with it and LVR powder that need to be shot. Will also load up some Sierra 125 FNHP and see how they do.

I'll put on a glove and cycle the action a lot over the next 2-3 days and hopefully burn some powder with it before the weekend.
 
If you just keep your hand off the lever you will never need to put the Tang safety on. The lever safety is enough.

But, I carry mine with one finger under the lever & that way it cannot fire until I remove that finger.

I had good luck with hornaday Lever Revolution, but it's expensive and I actually shot better with 170 grain Hornady American Whitetails.

So far I have not been successful hand loading good ammunition for this gun, but I haven't tried too many rounds yet.

Otherwise Hornaday's 150s and 170 s are my favorites with 170s being the most accurate at 100 yards.

I have a Leupold 3 to 9 scope, and without it I couldn't hit a damn thing because of my eyesight. Even so this limits me to a hundred yards, which is really the sweet range for this gun. I can usually hit a 6in circle at 200 yards with this gun, but no better than that. Even with heavy ammo,150 yd is the Practical limit for me.

By comparison, I have shot a 1.5" circle at 225 yards with my Savage bolt rifle, so I am not a bad shot. This 464 just has his limitations.

But within them, it is a fun gun to shoot, and very effective
 
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This was before I mounted the current scope setup...
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This is my third scope setup on this gun.

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The scope mount is one for a Thompson Centerfire that I modified to fit on the 464.
 
This shows a couple different Thompson Centerfire scope mounts that I modified to fit this rifle.
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These are manufactured by KwikSite
 
This was my first setup on this gun.

I believe this is from a 20160206_230427-1.jpg Ruger set up Picatinny, that I modified, and I carved the relief so the spent shells could Escape.

I had not polished or painted my modifications and you can still see rough file marks where the black rail is silver.
 
Got it out to the range yesterday and also took my 1983 Marlin '94 .44 Mag since I had not shot in a while, mostly to compare the Williams FP receiver sight to the Williams fiber optic sights on the 464.

Ammo tested was Rem 150 factory loads, and an assortment of handloads using the Speer 150 FN, Hornady 150 RN, Hornady 160 FTX, and Sierra 125 FNHP. Shooting was all done at 50 yards since I'm a bifocaled American now, and seldom shoot open sights in recent years.

Bottom line-

Boy, that action is rough when cycling rounds. On several rounds (including the factory loads) the lever just locked up after firing and it took considerable effort to open the action. I'm not taking about sticky extraction, but just not being able to get the lever to move. I'd expect any new levergun to be stiff right out of the box, but this is clunky and rough.

Trigger pull and lever catch safety are pretty heavy, and the serrated edge of the thumb safety repeatedly bit my thumb under recoil. The CAS trick of laying the thumb alongside the stock can't be used since you have to squeeze so hard to be able to pull the trigger.

Accuracy was not bad, considering my eyesight- the 3 dot fiber sights my work well for some people, but not for me. I'll need to make a change there before testing for real accuracy, but some results were promising. This little Mossberg does seem to like the Hornady 160 FTX bullet, which neither of my Marlin 30-30s do.

What I like about it:

Nice looking and quick handling rifle.


What I don't:

Action is really rough, even for a new rifle.
Trigger and lever safety are pretty heavy.
Sights don't work for me.
Hammer spur will not thread into the hammer.

I had hoped to do with it as I have my other rifles when I bought them new: clean them up, sight them in, head to the woods. Nope, not with this rifle. I can't say there are any defects that have me reaching for the phone to call Mossberg about a warranty return, but this dog won't hunt as-is, and it seems to be just the design of the rifle. I'm not giving up on it, and will dig around for tips and will get that action apart and look for burrs- but I had not expected to be buying a Rifle Kit.
 
Perhaps you would take a look at some of my exhaustive threads about the Marinecote 464 that I bought. If you don't have any experience as a gunsmith or precision metal worker you probably won't be happy with this gun until you take it to someone who is. When they are new they take real baby treatment, where as a Winchester rarely does and a Marlin never does. (I'm not talking about any cross breeds here.)
 
By the way you will break off that little spur that threads into the hammer, the first time you get excited in the field and cock the gun hard.

I'm telling you this so you don't lose a good deer over a stupid little part that shouldn't be on the gun.

Anyhow I used a high-mount for my scope so I can still use the iron sights, and so I wouldn't have to use that stupid hammer attachment.

Normally I wouldn't advise a highmount but this is a short-yardage gun so it doesn't matter.
 
It's a big deal to send a gun from California to Connecticut to get it repaired. The owner cannot ship it. It has to ship from into a dealer.

So I understand not wanting to deal with all that crap.
 
CaddmannQ said:
Perhaps you would take a look at some of my exhaustive threads about the Marinecote 464 that I bought. If you don't have any experience as a gunsmith or precision metal worker you probably won't be happy with this gun until you take it to someone who is. When they are new they take real baby treatment, where as a Winchester rarely does and a Marlin never does. (I'm not talking about any cross breeds here.)
Click to expand...

Yes, I certainly would- and have been digging around for them. I do appreciate the information you have put out on this forum. If you are thinking of any in particular, please post the links to some of them here-- I don't want to miss anything!

From what I have seen from some other folks, my rifle seems to have avoided some of the problems that have been reported.

What I did yesterday was get the action apart and polish the obvious wear points with 4/0 steel wool and in general smoothed that rough Marinecoat a bit where I could get to it. The hole for the pin at the top of the lever had rough edges and that saw a bit of a stone, but just enough to dull those edges a bit, then the rest with steel wool. But yes, that Marinecoat does cause a lot of drag on the bolt, as you have mentioned. What I did not do was remove the two rails, but only because I don't have a screwdriver bit that comes close to matching the slot in those screws and didn't want to mess them up. Buffing the bottom edges of the bolt where it rides those rails and the bottom where it rides over the hammer does seem to have helped some.

I didn't mess with the trigger/sear at all.

That is a PITA, shipping from CA- I had not heard that. My Remlin 336W went back to the factory 3 times, and in each case they emailed me a shipping label- all I had to do was box it up, and UPS showed up at my door and picked it up.
 
Well in theory the gun dealer doesn't have to charge you anything because he's supposed to help with the warranty work. It's the state of California that's the fly in the ointment of course. They want full documentation when you cut loose of that gun and if it takes over a certain period of time to get it back they want you to have another background check before you receive it. It virtually always takes long enough to require another background check if it has to go out of state.

The nice thing about buying from Davidson's (which is where I got my 464) is they have a lifetime warranty, and if you don't like the gun you send it back and they send you a new one or they give you store credit for the whatever you paid if that gun's not available.

Anyhow this is a pretty nice little gun once you get it tuned up, and you'll probably play with the barrel band a little bit in order to get it to shoot the way you want.

I actually haven't messed with mine too much other than to loosen it and tighten it and see what happens.

Examine the trapdoor that falls out of the receiver when you pull the lever. I forget what Mossberg calls that part, but it has a t-slot cut into it for the lock Bolt. If it's not pulling the lock down fast enough, they may of over cut that piece or the lock bolt T head slightly. Mine had some machine marks which I filed out. I shortened and Polished the top of that lock Bolt a little where it rides under the bolt, because it wasn't dropping fast enough when I pulled the lever.

When that happens the gun just locks up tight. Don't Force It if that happens. Lift the lever very slightly and push down on the lock bolt with your thumb. Once it drops the bolt will ride free.

I didn't have to touch those rails by the way. My efforts at polishing the inside of the receiver were mostly limited to removing excess marinecote where it existed, but only in places that contact the bolt during its travel.

In one of my threads you will notice that I experimented with reducing the mainspring pressure to make the gun cycle easier, and it did. Unfortunately the firing pin became unreliable, and I put most of the tension back on.

All of my threads about this gun are here in the 464 section. All of this and more is described herein.
 
Thanks very much CaddmannQ (I like that name). When I can pull the plug on work today I'll do some more searching.

And that's just ridiculous with California!
 
Yes it's a total case of the blind leading the blind in California. . .

If you haven't done this it will be revealing. Take some string, cock the lever all the way back, and tie it to the stock in the overcooked condition, where does not touch the bolt.

Work the lever and see how it feels without Hammer pressure. Where this Hammer rubs the bolt is the place to put extreme high pressure Moly lube. Check the wear pattern under the under side of the bolt.

I dressed the hammer down because I noticed it was really only rubbing on one side of the bolt. I polished the whole Bolt in that area. There's no reason to have Marine coat on that surface as you are going to keep it greased.

I put a little extra grease in that pocket around the firing pin and after 5 shots I will rub a dab of grease on the wear surface of that hammer.

If you use the very most expensive Molly Lube it will last about twice that long. And it starts to drag when that surface gets dry . . . :idk:
 
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I had to edit that last post a lot and I'm afraid it was pretty cryptic.

Sometimes my phone makes enormous blunders when I dictate to it and I don't proofread well enough to catch them all.
 
The moly lube I have is several years old- probably time for some new stuff! I put a very small dab of that on the underside of the bolt where it rides over the hammer- contact appears to be square across the top of the hammer-- but yes, that is one strong hammer spring! I took a quick look at Wolfe's website- no springs for the 464. I may take a coil off that spring and see how it does- either add a washer to it or get a replacement from Mossberg if I get light strikes. But for this next range session at least (and probably for this hunting season) I'll leave that spring alone.

Next time I tear down the rifle I may use the felt wheel and rouge on the top of the hammer and bottom of the bolt where those two have contact. For now, we'll just see how it does.

I was not able to remove the screw holding the thumb safety on, so just masked off everything around that button and beveled/polished the serrations on the one side that ate my thumb up- only took a couple of minutes. Seems more comfortable, but I'll know for sure with the first shot!
 
The little linkage that supports the main spring from the frame is a sort of bent y-shape and it allows the hammer to act as a rebounding hammer. You can bend it without removing the spring, linkage, or hammer from the receiver.

Mine is stamped out and pretty rough around the edges because it was never deburred, so I did actually remove it from the gun and deburr it first.
 
There's a little photo showing where I bent that dude.

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Rather than cut the spring you can also grind this little link a little bit on the shoulders and if you don't like it you can shim it back with a flat washer.
Making it closer to 90° reduces the spring pressure and making it wider than 90° increases the spring pressure.
 
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