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Ghost guns and what politicians really mean

John A.

Unconstitutional laws are not laws.
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I've been hearing the term "ghost gun" a lot lately. It's like the antigun politicians are wanting to stir up antigun sentiment to rally the ignorant masses behind their evil plans.

Well, I'm not really that far off in my assumption. As I believe that most of you reading this realize.

Fact is, prior to 1968, the government didn't require manufacturers to keep a record of how many guns they made via serial numbers, and any free American could just walk into a store and buy one like a bag of flour.

I've even heard you could order them through the mail and have them delivered straight to your door without a background check. [ad nauseum]

Well, because you could.

But after Kennedy was killed, there was a lot of Congressional discussion about the topic of that, so the politicians felt that they needed to act. Make it harder for the next Lee Oswald to get his gun to keep them safer.

But back to the subject and so I don't go off on a tangent of why's and how's that led up to it, you're welcome to do your own research.

Ghost guns.

The term would roughly be defined as: "guns the government doesn't have records of".

OK, so the government doesn't have a paper trail of who made the gun or who currently owns the gun.

OK, let's dust off the critical thinking skills portion of our brains for a minute.

Prior to 1968, guns weren't required to have a serial number. And no one really knows how many guns are in the USA anyway.

And since firearms have been brought into the continental US since at least the 1500's (actually prior) that would be about 500 years of firearms that have been made or imported without government oversight from all the people and standing armies who came to America that brought their arms with them?

I wonder how many blacksmiths toiled over their forges and made guns? There have been literally hundreds, if not thousands of small firearm companies that sprung up in the late 1850's to present alone.

Most making only one model or two that didn't really catch on, and some that still continue to this day that have literally made millions of guns and even with multiple models and copies of such.

So; ghost guns.

At the heart of the matter, it's about "guns that the government doesn't know about". It's not that it's a matter of public safety. For that matter, the guns already exist. And as I have shown, some of them for hundreds of years, the gov't is not stopping them from being made because they already exist. They largely want universal registration of them.

Aside that I don't think it would seriously be enforceable, it would be a logistical nightmare. But politicians don't care about that. Heck, that's most political office in Washington DC or state capitals not only thrive on that, they depend on it.

Universal registration.

That's the ultimate end goal here.

This whole rant is because I wanted to bring a few things to your attention that you probably aren't aware of.

Since 1968, we've had to do background checks when we buy a gun. The manufacturers have to keep records of serial numbers, and which distributor or dealer they sold the gun to. Then the distributor or dealer has to keep a record of who they sold the gun to. It doesn't get fuzzy until after the consumer purchases it.

This is where the Gov't doesn't like it. The paper trail begins to cool at this point. Sort of, but not exactly.

The gov't requires the serial numbers be logged into the 4473 background check. Even on used guns (this is important and I'll explain why in a minute).

This allows the fed's to get the paper trail hot again. Let's their hound dogs get a whiff of where that gun is now and gives them a starting point again.

See, the gov't can inspect a gun dealers records once a year without a warrant. Just call and say "John, we're going to drop by sometime Wednesday evening and look through your stuff". And at any time while you are licensed, they can call and demand to know if you sold such and such gun, and to who. You have a very short amount of time you have to respond to those "requests".

OK, fast forward to the end of the business. All those records that you have accumulated. All those bound books that list each gun. Where it came from. Where it went. What happens to all of those?

Those go to the National Licensing Center.

The what?

The National Licensing Center.

Where the ATF retains the records indefinitely. They have even ran out of storage space for all of those records and have had to resort to storing them offsite in large shipping containers.

Why?

So they can find the guns serial numbers, and who the owner(s) of it have been. Old school style because Congress has made laws that prohibit a GUN REGISTRY.

So, by keeping the records, in my opinion, they are violating the law in doing so.

I ask that you read this short article. If it doesn't raise eyebrows and concern you, you've not been paying close enough attention.

Please read the link below. It is rather eye opening, and for those that don't like to read, they have pictures.

https://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/185530763/the-low-tech-way-guns-get-traced

So why the recent cry about "ghost guns"? Because the gov't doesn't know who made or owns them. It's that simple.

gun trace.JPG

While it is completely legal for anyone who is not prohibited from owning a firearm to make their own firearm, they are twisting the reason behind their motives, which is universal registration.

Since we all know just how reliable government web pages are, I want to make a few screenshots from the ATF concerning a person being allowed to make their own if they chose to.

ghost gun law.JPG
 
But if your gov'ment Departments are as (in)efficient as ours, they still won't know who owns a particular gun...

Here, as in the US, cars have to be registered, and when you buy or sell a car you have to notify the DLVA (Driver Vehicle Licencing Agency).

In the last year I've had 2 different counties send me speeding tickets, for a car I sold in Jan 2015.. and I have a slip from the DVLA dated Feb 2015 acknowedging that i'm no longer the owner....!
 
I have a couple of ghost guns. But I cant find em, cuz they're ghosts....
Wooooo woooooo wooooo
Boom!
 
Thank you TJ.

This has been on my mind for a while since after a discussion that I recently had with my Mom. She said she heard something on the news about a "ghost gun" and asked me what that was.

All I knew how to explain it to her was a bunch of anti gun people trying to create a scare. This topic should be put a little historical reference to it.
 
Here, as in the US, cars have to be registered, and when you buy or sell a car you have to notify the DLVA (Driver Vehicle Licencing Agency).

In the last year I've had 2 different counties send me speeding tickets, for a car I sold in Jan 2015.. and I have a slip from the DVLA dated Feb 2015 acknowedging that i'm no longer the owner....!

Here in the states, when you sell a vehicle registered in your name, the tag stays with you--it doesn't "go" with the car. BUT, if you sell a car to someone, and they just throw their old tag from another car on there and never register it, THEN get in an accident OR if the car blows up and they abandon it and in either case take their plate with them and flee the scene, the police will trace the car back to you via the VIN! Fortunately, when you sell the car, you can fill out a form and give it to the Registry/DMV stating that you DID sell the car to so and so.

Here in FL I have bought and sold many cars with an "open" title--meaning only the seller has signed it and no other info has been entered. While not technically "legal", this saves one from the expense of getting a state-issued title in their own name, especially if the car was bought for parts or to flip... And this also saves one from having to pay the sales tax on the purchase...
 
Nice write-up, John! :)

When talking about "ghost guns", and this country IS cheerily haunted with them! ;), it is important to note they are not polterguns--people are not buying them to do harm with an untraceable firearm. People buy them for the enjoyment of "building it themselves" as it is often more expensive to build an 80% gun.

The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns. Having a serial-numbered gun aids the police in recovery IF you reported it stolen. A non-serialized gun will just end up in the Chief's collection... :D

John is correct in that the ATF is woefully unprepared to trace guns found at a crime scene and it can take months! But that is not such a bad thing because the chances of finding the perp by this method are slim to none, especially if gun was reported stolen. A convenient list of guns and gunowners would be subject to abuse by those wishing to target the same, either through lawsuits or confiscatory schemes... Simply type a few keys "who owns ARs", print out the list, then send the storm troopers on their way to your house--THIS is what they want!

Dumpocraps and other socialists want gun registration so they can later confiscate so there will be no armed resistance to their attempts at forceful governing. But as shown in many states, there is wholesale resistance to this with major non-compliance by patriots. The problem lies in that it is unconstitutional to create a law that makes a criminal out of a formally law-abiding citizen who has done nothing to break the law--this is why there is all this "grandfathering" going on. Meaning, you can not transfer your current rights to your heirs. THAT action would be considered breaking the law... And simply the requirement that someone "DO" something (ie: register a gun) to remain in the law is unconstitutional. No one should be "forced" to do anything!

I had my FFL for several years back in the 90s. "Storefront" laws made it difficult for me to retain it so I let it go. I didn't have a lot of guns on the books and any that were still in inventory were transferred to myself, then those transactions were submitted to the ATF. I've haven't heard from the ATF since...
 
My first deer rifle was a gun my grandfather said he got for joining the NRA. Can you imagine the backlash if they did that today.
 
I had a co-worker told me about ghost guns. He told me about a 3-d printed hand gun. I simply asked him if the said video showed them shooting it. ....him: no..... Me: because it would be a hand grenade.... A 100% 3d printed gun would not hold up to the pressure of a live round....

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I had a co-worker told me about ghost guns. He told me about a 3-d printed hand gun. I simply asked him if the said video showed them shooting it. ....him: no..... Me: because it would be a hand grenade.... A 100% 3d printed gun would not hold up to the pressure of a live round....

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There are printable metals now.

But the 3d printed guns thenselves arent the issue but they are being used to scare the sheep. The issue is registration, same as it has always been.
 
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There are printable metals now.

But the 3d printed guns thenselves arent the issue but they are being used to scare the sheep. The issue is registration, same as it has always been.
He claimed it was 100% 3-D printed. I know there are "plastic guns" I have a in law that has the judge with a polymer frame but cylinder and action are metal along with a metal lined bore. I don't think we will ever see a 100% plastic gun any time soon. I understand the concept of the "ghost gun" but most people think of it as a gun that could pass through a metal detector. In all realness it's a gun that the government don't know about.

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Here's a few facts about "x ray guns" and "metal detector" guns.

Even if you were to be able to make a plastic frame, barrel, slide and most of the internal parts that was strong enough not to explode in your hand when you pull the trigger, there will still be springs at bare minimum. Guns are full of springs. Even revolvers. Firing pin/hammer spring. Etc.

But a major component of guns that everyone seems to have issue with, is the copper coated lead bullets. Are they going to try to say you can't pick them up in a metal detector or x ray machine? What about the brass case? That's no less than 4 different types of metal in an otherwise all plastic gun.

Springs --steel
Brass, steel or aluminum casings (hull)
Lead and/or copper coated lead bullet.

This is why critical thinking skills are important.

Something that I don't think a lot of people being fed this bull is capable of doing. It's much easier just to believe what you're being told than to actually take 2 minutes to really think about the subject.
 
I could easily build a big bore one-shot, shotgun, or pepperbox muzzle loader, with a glass projectile and spring of thermoplastic rubber, disguised as an adult novelty. While all the x-ray folks were snickering about the embarrassment, they'd miss the truth completely.

But the primer is still a problem. For a one-shot, the pin can be plastic, & the primer can be made from glass.
 
I could easily build a big bore one-shot, shotgun, or pepperbox muzzle loader, with a glass projectile and spring of thermoplastic rubber, disguised as an adult novelty. While all the x-ray folks were snickering about the embarrassment, they'd miss the truth completely.

But the primer is still a problem. For a one-shot, the pin can be plastic, & the primer can be made from glass.

Can it be done, yes.

Is it something that 99.9999999999999% percent of the population would do and use in a violent crime..no
 
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