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Handgun versus Carbine--Velocity testing

John A.

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I just got back from finally doing some Chrony testing of a few various pistol calibers and as I promised a few folks here, I wanted to share my findings.

I've wanted to do this for a while and haven't had time to sit down and do any real testing, and while it is no big surprise that a longer barrel will net an increase in velocity, I thought some of you would be interested in seeing exactly how much.

I specifically tested 9mm, 38 Special, and .357 Magnum. All ammo used between calibers were from the same box/lot of ammo so as to not skew the data.

Ammo used was:

9mm Wolf 115 gr ammo

38 Special 158 gr Remington UMC

357 Magnum 158 gr BLAZER ammo

First off:

-----------------------------------------
Beretta 92 Centurion.

4.3 inch barrel


Wolf 115 gr ammo.

1163 fps
1125 fps
1092 fps
1155 fps

Average = 1133 fps
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Century UC-9 (uzi)

16 inch Barrel


Wolf 115 gr ammo

1373 fps
1357 fps
1332 fps
1326 fps

Average = 1347 fps

214 fps velocity increase using the carbine over the handgun

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Taurus Model 66 .357

6 inch barrel

38 Special 158 gr Remington UMC


1021 fps
1008 fps
1015 fps
1034 fps

Average = 1019 fps

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Same handgun, but with .357 magnum 158 gr BLAZER ammo

1008 fps
927 fps
964 fps
974 fps
986 fps

Average = 971 fps

*The BLAZER ammo is anemic and loaded with slower burning powder and thus the velocity decrease, but I use the same ammo in the carbine to see the real difference in changing barrel length
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NEF Pardner .357/38 barrel cut to 16 inches

158 gr Remington UMC 38 Special ammo


1250 fps
1202 fps
1236 fps
1235 fps

Average = 1230 fps
*211 fps velocity increase over the 6 inch barrel handgun


------------------------------------------------------------
NEF Pardner .357/38 barrel cut to 16 inches
357 magnum BLAZER 158 gr ammo


1231 fps
1225 fps
1208 fps
1223 fps

Average fps = 1221
* 250 fps increase in velocity over the 6 inch barrel handgun
 
This is some good stuff, John. Thank you.

That 6" revolver with heavy .38-Spl ammo actually surprised me. A lot.

So did that weak-ass Blazer .357-Magnum as you already acknowledged.

Just for informational purposes and I am NOT suggesting anyone try this:

A Hornady 180-gr XTP bullet in a .357 Magnum case, with 13.9-grains of Alliant 2400** powder and a Federal Small Pistol Magnum primer, from my 16.2" .357 Magnum Handi-Rifle chronos @


.
.
.

1540-fps.

** It's over MAX powder charge for .357 Magnum but is way short of .357 Maximum data, and the Handi Rifle has the strength to handle it easily since it can be chambered for the .357 Maximum cartridge.

Best Regards,

Dave
 
Thank you very much gentlemen.

Nitesite, the Blazer was that aluminum cased stuff. I guess it's loaded weak on purpose because of the aluminum case. To be honest, I've never been a fan of blazer, but the guy threw it in the trade when I got the pistol, so it's good enough for plinking and zero'ing the sights. Once it's gone, it's gone. I'm not out anything on it.

Good lord, 1540 fps would be a whitetail nightmare. Especially in the thick brush I hunt and call home. I would have no reservations using it whatsoever. My cousin hunts with a 357 marlin and he fills his freezer every year with it. If he's hunting out in western ky at those big farms he usually takes a 308, but around here at home, the old marlin doesn't disappoint.

I need to get up with you in PM to ask if you have any favorite recipes for 45acp. I have some titegroup and longshot powder and some 230 gr Hornady XTP hollow points I need to load up. I've heard pretty good things about the XTP's, so I thought I'd load some up and do some tater tunnel testing and see if it's worth putting in my HD gun.
 
Excellent! Thank you. If you do anymore, please post it up. I cannot get enough of it. :) Take care. Tom Worthington
 

Holy Crap. That is excellent grouping!

And yeah, 1540-fps from a 180-gr XTP would put ANY white tailed deer down pronto if hit correctly. The reloading data goes all the way up to 17.0 grains of Alliant 2400 with .357 MAXIMUM brass. Your cousin could really up his game with this 180-gr XTP load with regular Magnum brass in his Marlin. It's a brush-busting heavy bullet and it is accurate.
 
Tom396, If I ever get all my 9mm carbines in the same place at the same time, I'll do some shooting between them. They have a myriad of barrel lengths, and bolt types from open bolt guns to delayed roller lock to big heavy subgun type bolts to AR bolts to......

I guess if anyone is interested, I could do a handgun showdown too just to play around with the chrony. I am far from having an extensive handgun collection, but I think I could probably round up a few 9mm pistols around here if I look around some ;)

Not that anyone is probably very interested, but I had the chance to test some of my 300 blackout cast bullet handloads today too. 10.2 gr of A1680 underneath of some 223 gr leatherheads clocked in about 1020 fps average, which sounded pretty sweet with the suppressor. They're a lot more quiet than the Federal American Eagle suppressor loads that use 220 gr OTM's. FWIW, the Federal subsonics came in about 1070 fps average. I had 2 that was banging close to transonic out of the 8.5 inch barrel.

nitesite, that group was just 10 yards. I only had a few of the 357 blazers left so I wanted to just take my time and see what I could do with it since it was new to me and I had a few left to blow through before getting hard dark.

The trigger and everything is really nice on the gun, but the front sight is huge and covered up the entire center of the bullseye. The gun would be capable of so much more with a narrow front, but I understand why a big thick front is desirable on the old "combat" guns that this is copied from.

And yes, I remember the tater tunnel thread. I'm looking forward to trying it out if I can gather up some load data for a combo that I have without having to buy a powder that I don't already have at the moment.
 
John,

You can definitely put together some Titegroup 230-gr loads that will shine.
 
John A., have you tried any of your own hand loads to optimize the carbine barrel length? I am wondering how fast a fairly light projectile (125 grain?) could be made to run in a .357 carbine, using a slow burning powder. Well, I wonder a lot of stuff, but that is one of the things. :)

I am about ready to ask a friend if he will load me some sort of 155 grain .40 caliber JHP with a slow burning powder, and see what they might do out of my Hi Point carbine. I think 1500 fps might very well be doable. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
John A., have you tried any of your own hand loads to optimize the carbine barrel length? I am wondering how fast a fairly light projectile (125 grain?) could be made to run in a .357 carbine, using a slow burning powder. Well, I wonder a lot of stuff, but that is one of the things. :)

I am about ready to ask a friend if he will load me some sort of 155 grain .40 caliber JHP with a slow burning powder, and see what they might do out of my Hi Point carbine. I think 1500 fps might very well be doable. Take care. Tom Worthington

Tom,

Some AA#7 would easily get that velocity.

Love the Hi-Point Carbine.
 
Tom, I don't have any 40 cal carbines, so I couldn't say, but sounds like nitesite has you covered (not that it surprises me).

I swear he's a walking reloading encyclopedia.

And a real asset here.

I have thought about loading some hot 9mm for the long barrel ones and the ones with the big heavy bolts to see just what I can get out of them, but most of my reloading is for heavy bullets and suppressed shooting, which is challenging in itself because I try to keep everything in the 1020-1050 fps range because that seems to be about where things seem to be the most quiet, while having the most velocity and still being "quiet".

I'm also only loading for 4 calibers at this time (223, 300 blk, 9mm, 45acp), but I plan to pick up maybe 4 or 5 more as money allows. 38/357, 308, 32acp, maybe .40, but I don't shoot it much. I have a lot of brass for it that I've collected over the years but I've not been shooting it much these days.
 
I've been rather unhappy about the performance of my .357 Henry. I find the same loads typically shoot at least 50% faster from the Henry, than from my 4.5" SAA clone.
That goes for .38 specials too.

But accuracy from the Henry was disappointing, even at 50 yards.

I've been shooting 158 gr. American Eagle round nose lead, and Blazer flat nose FMJs, but this time I bought a box of Hornaday Lever revolutions, and I'm hoping the improved ballistics will become obvious when I shoot them.

BTW I paid $23 +tax for 25 rounds! OMG, I would never normally spend that much, but I just had to try these and see how the Henry will behave.
 
The reason for the LeveRevolution is the nose isn't sharp pointed so it doesn't light the primer off of the round sitting in front of it inadvertently, but I suspect the "more pointy" tip of the Hornady compared to the ROUND point of 357/38 to be an improvement.
 
Exactly. Better aerodynamics.

I expect them to fly faster and straighter.

And for a buck a round they better damn well! :mad:
 
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