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My 464 Is Here

sullivan

.270 WIN
It only took the cops a couple of weeks to post my Approval and I made haste to the gunshop, to take it home and give it a good clean. This consisted of pouring boiling water through the bore from the chamber, with the aid of a funnel and plastic tube. Drying out revealed that the chamber was rusty and a patch through the bore picked up some black stuff which I assumed to be burnt carbon.

The bore was scrubbed five times with carbon remover on a bronze brush and the following patch had quite a bit of black so the above was repeated, with a cleaner patch as the result. The bore was oiled with Ballistol. The next day found me at the range bright and early, for me anyway;) and lo and behold, the first shot hit paper at fifty yards:) What a relief. You can't bore sight without removing the bolt which voids warranty, so I read here somewhere and the first shot was a real gamble.

Speaking of gambling:cool: The combination of my eyes and the Mossy sights makes accuracy pretty haphazard, so the blade was removed from the backsight at home the previous day. That made the bead and target easier to see. The shot, while centred fairly well, was way high with the rear sight on its lowest setting. Holding lower in the U, a couple more shots went even highero_O but more disturbingly, the lever was sticking after firing, on the downstroke. That was not good and it was decided to perform a feeding test. With six in the magazine, jamming was experienced. Measuring with my calipers at home that afternoon revealed that the Hornady 160 gn gummy tips were well under the 2.550" maximum, so it was back to the shop the next morning for a warranty job.

Yesterday, four and a half working days later, a phone call informed me that my rifle was ready. Boy that was Quick:D The chamber was rough, so they said. That was polished and so was the bluing at the back of the bolt and lock bar. The magazine follower had been sticking and it was freed. A couple of test shots had been fired from the pack of Hornadys that were left with the rifle, for them to use.

The rifle had been delivered for repair cleaned and oiled but the two shots they fired left rather more black fouling than expected, which made me wonder if this is "dirty" ammo. No matter. It is back in my hands now:D and I am much happier.

I hope that my experience is of benefit to other owners.
 
Congratulations on the new rifle. :cool:

My Mossberg lever gun doesn't like long cartridges, and my Henry lever gun doesn't like short ones.

They both have their quirks, but I'll deal with it. It's part of the charm of the antique design.

My 464 has the silver finish, and there was a lot of it on the bolt and rails, causing the bolt to drag. I spent some hours polishing the finish on the bolt, receiver, etc.

After reading some other folks experiences with this model, I said screw the warranty and stripped it all down. After polishing it up and a good lube job it runs OK, but I think it would run even better If I relieved the mainspring tension somewhat.

This gun cocks pretty hard, and so the bolt drags against the hammer pretty hard when cycled.

So far, the Hornaday American Whitetail loads seem to run the best of all the factory ammo I've tried.
 
Hmmm. Interesting post CadmannQ. Only just got to it and still mulling it over but pretty sure I can do without quirks of the kind you mention. I do love tinkering but have well and truly proved that I am useless at fixing guns unless it is to do with bedding, woodwork or refinishing wood. I had a Rio Grande that would not feed or fire and sold it out of sheer frustration, after being unable to make it work. When this Mossy played up I was not about to repeat the experience and off it went to the smith, quick smart.

I do understand your frustration however and good luck to you for fixing yours. It is very satisfying to fix things yourself and it is not always about saving money either.
My gun cycles pretty easy however molbdenum disulphide grease has been applied to the points of contact between hammer and bolt. Speaking of the bolt, I am going to buy some screwdrivers tomorrow and after grinding them to fit the action screws, the bolt and lever will come out for a looksee inside. Might try to put some of that grease on the trigger parts to keep the release smooth.

I noticed today that both the front and the fore end rings/loops(?) are quite loose. Both of these parts influence accuracy and we will see what the effect is, if any. I mention this because they were both quite tight on a rifle of another make that I once owned.

Unfortunately, there will not be any shooting for me for quite a while. A chronic condition of my left shoulder needs treatment and has not responded yet, so no lifting for the time being. All I can do is contemplate, now. I have mounts for a 94Win with 1" rings and a T36 Weaver. I wonder if it would fit. No heavy lifting involved there;):)
 
I've had a couple shoulder injuries my own self LOL. They took some time...

I'm happy to hear about the Moly lube! Mostly because I have some. I've used several lubes there, and been unsatisfied. Running regular Hoppe's gun oil, I have to put a drop there every 5 shots or the hammer drags.

Gun grease lasts only a bit longer. Deep creep was better, but that wiping action of the hammer removes the lube, whatever.

I'm trying a new treatment today, that seems great on my other lever guns. WD-40 Specialist Anti-Corrosion treatment. It seems to work great, but I don't know how long it will last in action.

I will take some Moly grease though, and I have this Japanese spec CV lube I wanted to try.

But the real cure may be to reduce that spring. This gun hits the primer very hard, so this may work OK. Also I wonder if this gun isn't a little out of spec due to a burr on that spring or some such. I haven't taken it out yet.

But I will.
 
It only took the cops a couple of weeks to post my Approval and I made haste to the gunshop, to take it home and give it a good clean. This consisted of pouring boiling water through the bore from the chamber, with the aid of a funnel and plastic tube. Drying out revealed that the chamber was rusty and a patch through the bore picked up some black stuff which I assumed to be burnt carbon.

I have never heard of this before. Why the boiling water? I would think soaking in water and 'letting' it dry produces rust. Why did you not use a bore brush and some oil or CLP?
 
I shot the 464 today with the new lube and it ran great. Best ever in fact.

I only shot the American Whitetails though. They are plenty powerful for me, and feed the best of any I've tried so far.

My gun has 160 rounds through it now, so it's just really getting broken in.

I like it every bit as much as my new Henry .357 that cost almost $300 more.

It ran so well I didn't bother to try the other grease.
 
BTW, I did some work on the mainspring link to reduce pressure on the bolt. I think this is a big issue on this gun, which is what makes the EP grease (or Molybdenum) necessary.

I just bent the "z" in the link a little tighter to adjust the mainspring pressure down.

I haven't fired it yet, but I think this is really going to help.
 
I have never heard of this before. Why the boiling water? I would think soaking in water and 'letting' it dry produces rust. Why did you not use a bore brush and some oil or CLP?
Sorry to take so long responding. For some reason your post went unnoticed:oops:
As for the boiling water, it is said to "open" the pores of the steel, the better to allow solvents to act on otherwise inaccessible fouling. I have long believed rightly or wrongly, that makers do not clean bores properly after they put a testing shot through their guns. I patched out the chamber and bore afterwards while it was piping hot, before using a bronze brush and solvent(2nd para). Initial drying-out revealed rust(1st para).
 
BTW, I did some work on the mainspring link to reduce pressure on the bolt. I think this is a big issue on this gun, which is what makes the EP grease (or Molybdenum) necessary.

I just bent the "z" in the link a little tighter to adjust the mainspring pressure down.

I haven't fired it yet, but I think this is really going to help.

Read your ingenious fix elsewhere Cmann:) Have fun with your toys mate.
 
Yes, I have as much fun playing with the mechanism as shooting it. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry to take so long responding. For some reason your post went unnoticed:oops:
As for the boiling water, it is said to "open" the pores of the steel, the better to allow solvents to act on otherwise inaccessible fouling. I have long believed rightly or wrongly, that makers do not clean bores properly after they put a testing shot through their guns. I patched out the chamber and bore afterwards while it was piping hot, before using a bronze brush and solvent(2nd para). Initial drying-out revealed rust(1st para).

Interesting. I have heard of something similar with applying Frog Lube. They have us placing all parts in the oven at 350 for 5-10 minutes. Basically heating it up and allowing the lubricant to enter the 'pores' once cool you wipe off all excess. I am no longer a fan of Frog Lube but the process seems to be a popular metal process.
 
A LITTLE UPDATE
It is six weeks since firing my first few shots with the Mossy. Shame on me but the time has been spent trying to get myself fit and any kind of exercise was forbidden. Sadly, none of that has worked but new tests have been done and the report is due on Tuesday. So I decided to ignore the consequences and try out my fixed-up-rifle last Friday with the same gummy tip Hornadys and my reloads with starting charges and a Winchester FN 150 gn bullet.

The first three Hornadys went in to a group of about 1.5" at 50 yards. That was very surprising considering my eyesight but that was enough of blowing away that expensive factory ammo. I let the barrel cool while testing a rimfire with a scope and alternated between that and the 464 with handloads. The results were really gratifying as far as accuracy goes and there was no bolt-sticking either, thanks to the gunsmith:) There was some primer protrusion, even with the factory ammo but extraction with both it and the reloads was easy, indicating that pressure was not an issue. The last trial-lot of handloads put the first two very close together; under an inch but the final shot was waaay high. My eyes had given up at last and it was time to go home.

The Skinner peep sight that was ordered not long ago is actually in the country (Oz). That was really quick but it has not made it to my door. I hung out as long as I could for it but I had to get a shoot in before those medicos got their hands on me and maybe cramped my style with some sort of procedure or treatment. As it turns out, I survived the trip very well. Next time, there will be a peep sight to make my eyes more reliable:)
 
My eyes won't make it with just a peep sight.

I want an antique-looking type scope to go on my Mossberg, but my 464 is silver and it's just so non traditional.

I may end up putting a sight like this on the Henry 357 rifle instead.

Screenshot_2016-03-05-20-25-48-1.png
From Montana Arms
 
So this is the mount I bought for the 464, But it will need some modification to fit.
20160303_124645-1.jpg
I need a silver scope for it now. :D
 
ANOTHER UPDATE to #13
Sadly and to cut a long story short, my Skinner did not fit. The hole spacing was right, the screws were not too long but the body of the sight fouled the bolt, which would not move.
I explained this in an email to Andy, who must have been up very late because his reply was almost instantaneous. His response was to offer to fix it and give me one of his foresights and send it back To Oz: all of it Free. Naturally, I accepted his offer:) and it came back in the mail this afternoon:D only a month after it was sent back. That is a round trip to the U S and back to Oz. I reckon he must have got started the minute he got it.
It seems that not all 464s are made the same. I measured the distance from the top of the bolt to the high point of the rear receiver bridge so that he would know how much to take off the sight and after fitting this pm, I can see a good gap between sight and bolt.
Now to try it out:D
 
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