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Old. Vs. new style bolts and conversions

Dr. Marneaus

Dr. Marneaus

.270 WIN
Hi!

This relates to 500 parts, so i'm posting it here.

I have a modern 590, this uses the "new" style bolt that has a firing pin spring, and the matching bolt slide which is cut for dual action bars.

Heres where the 500 parts come in: I purchased a vintage "jeweled" or engraved style bolt (and elevator) to add a little class to my 590. This bolt is the "old" style that has the "rocker" bolt lock and NO spring on the firing pin. So, its a floating firing pin and the bolt lock floats as well, and relies solely on the bolt slide to press the lock upward and into position.

I have a few questions:

1. I assume I could simply get a "old style" dual action bar bolt slide and run this setup how it was originally installed in an older shotgun. Is there any issue or negative side to the older floating firing pin and rocker style bolt lock assemblies?

2. From what I can see, though I don't have both in my hands. the actual bolt body itself appears unchanged, simply the internals. Is it possible to take the guts from my modern day bolt, and install them into the vintage bolt body?

any help here would be appreciated :)
 
Not sure about the switching of the bolts and the guts and slides.

I would call Havlin (636) 937-6401 and talk with them.

Also the "jeweled" bolt was sold by Mossberg in 2012 in a 500A.......you might want to give them a call also.(800) 363-3555

Mossberg_Gold_Trigger_50126.jpg
 
old mossy said:
Not sure about the switching of the bolts and the guts and slides.

I would call Havlin (636) 937-6401 and talk with them.

Also the "jeweled" bolt was sold by Mossberg in 2012 in a 500A.......you might want to give them a call also.(800) 363-3555

View attachment 15929
Click to expand...

Interesting, I didnt know an actual jewled version existed, i ordered the old school engraved one.
 
Nevermind, this all may be a moot point. It appears as though the bolt I purchased, while still having a floating firing pin and floating bolt lock, is indeed, the "short" style bolt lock. I thought these all used a firing pin spring.

This is a bolt with the old rocker style bolt lock, and the second pic is the type of flat top bolt slide that goes with it.
long bolt by
[url=https://flic.kr/p/XiMDq1]long slide by

This is the old style bolt lock.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/XiMDqS]long lock by


This is a new style bolt lock:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/XiMEb9]shot lock by

this is the slide that goes with it: note the hook that hooks into the notch on the bolt lock?
[url=https://flic.kr/p/WXyoFq]short slide by Andrew M, on Flickr

This is the bolt i purchased:
short hook bolt by
[url=https://flic.kr/p/WXyoGC]short hook bolt 2 by

It seems apparent to me that it uses the newer style with the hook, as the bolt lock is clearly that style.

Given that its not in my hands yet, and I cannot compare, this at least tells me that the internals from my modern bolt should work.

It "should" work to install it as it exists, without the return spring that it never had from the factory, and use it with my bolt slide that I already have, OOOOOOR, it appears as though I should be able to swap the guts, including the firing pin, spring, bolt lock, that go with my current bolt slide.

Again its not like I'm running out and doing this tomorrow and shooting it, I understand I need to check if things lock up and function, but does this all sound correct?[/url][/url][/url][/url][/url]
 
With all those images you supplied and what I have seen so far I am pretty confident that the internals from the new one works with that bolt housing you purchased.
 
So it appears that there is an older style ejector as well, that has a slightly different bevel than the new style. I installed the old bolt, and it was a bear to open the action, i fiddled around with it seeing what the issue was, and its definitely the ejector. Looking at pics on ebay it seems clear that there are two different shapes of ejectors.
 
I need to figure out what's up with my bolt and ejector and everything.

I'm getting a stuck bolt sometimes (dry cycling). If you are good and vigorous every time you rack it it's fine but sometimes when you try to go slow it hangs up solid. I've noticed this doesn't happen with the action release button but really only when you drop the hammer. For some reason it seems like the action is struggling to overcome the hammer or start the hammer in the rearward motion, and maybe this is combined with the ejector? The 'old' style ejector is a bit better but still definitely makes the bolt hang sometimes. I guess I can try changing parts back and around etc to see what all does and doesn't cause it to stick.

I can just remove the ejector to test that. I can replace the engraved bolt with the original, etc.

It's definitely not the bolt lock, as that drops nicely as soon as you move the slide back about half of an inch, and it stays down and out of the way. It looks like the bolt slide is nicely grabbing the rear hook on the bolt lock as well. It seems to hang as soon as the bolt slide contacts the hammer and begins to push it back, then it locks up I think at the point where the bolt and the hammer both try to move backwards. This is where the bolt slide and the bolt are attempting to overcome the hammer as well as get past the ejector.

Any thoughts?
 
I'm pleased to say I reached a satisfactory point with the action cycling.

I tried switching out one part at a time and determined it was partially the bolt and partially the ejector.

So I changed out the guts of the bolt with the new guts, as I noticed the bolt slide interacted slightly different with the newer bolt lock, so I swapped it all over. T was better but not perfect.

Then I did a little fitting with a file on the front face of the ejector to give it a more equal angle. I greased it and put it all together. Cycled great. It's still alittle stiffer than the factory setup, but it did not stick one bit. I'm happy.
 
Dr. Marneaus said:
I'm pleased to say I reached a satisfactory point with the action cycling.

I tried switching out one part at a time and determined it was partially the bolt and partially the ejector.

So I changed out the guts of the bolt with the new guts, as I noticed the bolt slide interacted slightly different with the newer bolt lock, so I swapped it all over. T was better but not perfect.

Then I did a little fitting with a file on the front face of the ejector to give it a more equal angle. I greased it and put it all together. Cycled great. It's still alittle stiffer than the factory setup, but it did not stick one bit. I'm happy.
Click to expand...

Good to hear, man. I didn't have anything useful to speculate about, so I didn't. That bolt looks great. Too bad it's not 100% interchangeable. Hope it holds up and is dependable.

Can you see any premature wear on the barrel where the locking block interfaces?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The bolt locking block is free of premature wear, it would appear. When i had the old bolt guts in it, the lock would fall nicely, prior to the bolt attempting to move backward. Now that it has the new guts, its the same except the bolt slide has to pull it down against spring tension.

The only wear I am seeing is some silvery dust in the top of the receiver, about half way back in the opening. not sure where or what is rubbing on what, but I can always put some sharpie on the bolt and cycle it a few times to see where its coming from. Its apparent that it is coming from the bolt because it wipes off the receiver with my finger.
 
So, before it gets shot in this configuration, is there anything I should, or CAN check to make sure I'm not gonna explode myself? I dont want the bolt to come out of battery or anything, nor do I want to start wearing out the locking lug recess or anything like that.

Here's what I've checked:

- Lockup. The action locks up solid. I can see the bolt lock seated fully and nicely into the locking lug recess on the top of the barrel inside the receiver. I can jerk on it all I want, and it aint coming loose or releasing.

- action timing: From what I can tell, the "timing" (if such a thing exists on a shotgun?) is good. Action is locked up. Trigger is pulled, hammer falls, action lock lever falls, thus unlocking the action bars. Then, as you pull the action tube back, the hook on the bottom of the bolt slide engages the bolt lock, and pulls the bolt lock down from the locking lug recess, and at the same time begins to cock the hammer back. After a shot movement, the bolt begins to pull backward, and the bolt slide completely locks the hammer back.

It all appears to happen at the proper times, in the right order, with nothing hanging up or getting stuck where it shouldn't. The only stickiness seems to come from the back of the bolt attempting to pass over the front of the ejector, but that's remedied now by the light filing I did.

Literally the only fitting I did was on the front face of the ejector. Everything else was just parts swapping, and the only foreign part now is the bolt body (and extractors).

Is there anything else I should, or could check?
 
Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Might have been able to save you some trouble.

The diff extractors....the right side one is a sharp hook to jerk the hull out. The left is beveled so it'll let the hull pull sideways with the ejector. If you put a right/sharp into a left slot, it'll not want to let the hull go and it'll be extremily hard to work the gun.

When you remove or replace a bolt lock, slip a piece of aluminum soda can into both sides to work as shims to center the lock as you tap the pin back in. Once in, jerk the shims.

The only "problem" I see in the pics above is the firing pin in that one. If that pin is extending that far forward, it's what's causing your jamming. Look that one over a bit. It appears to be an old style pin in a new bolt.

The slightly polished spot on the inside of the receiver just behind the bolt lock is normal. That's where the lock hits as you move the slide forward. Just lube it.
 
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