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The Wylde SPR

aksavanaman

Work In Progress...
Supporter
"Philanthropist"
I've put together a few AR's now but haven't really documented any of my builds. SO... I will follow suit with the rest of the folks and start one now.

I recently sold my first AR I put together and without getting into to much detail, I think my main problem with that build was that I was trying to accomplish to many things with one rifle. I had mostly BCM parts with a very nice BCM 16" stainles barrel and your other quality add ons... but it wasn't really a fighting carbine, nor was it a long(er) range precision platform... and I really wanted both.

So I parted with her in order to fund another AR build... and really it will have aided in two builds. I recenlty finished my carbine build and kept with good quality yet budget friendly PSA parts... opting for the slightly more expensive FN double chromed barrel they offer in their premium line, threw on my PA micro dot I already have, and I believe I was able to throw it together for around $550 which is pretty darn good.

That's not was this thread is about though... As you may be able to tell by the title, this build will focus more on a precision AR15, with high quality parts (where it counts), a quality barrel, nice trigger and good glass to make accurate shots.

Starting off this build will be an Odin Works 18" stainless barrel, with a .223 Wylde chambering, a 1/8 twist and a very intersting "intermediate" gas system length. The .223 Wylde chamber has been around long enough to establish itself as a fantastic compromise to achieve the best accuracy with both .223 and 5.56 ammo, and some might say it's the "bee's knee's" when it comes to the long range AR world. Where this barrel differs is in it's intermediate gas system. Being 1.5" shorter than a rifle length but longer than mid length... it may just offer a very ballanced recoil signiture and I think it will work out well. Odin Works is out of Idaho and manufactures their barrel from McGowen blanks.

I want a nicely balance long range platform, doesn't need to be a feather weight, but i would like to keep it under 9lbs with glass. I will update as each component comes in and give you guys a good report on what she can do.

Stay tuned....
 
I am stoked to hear more about this build. I'll be following it with great interest!
 
i will be following also, i just recently decided to build a more precision upper that i can swap onto my current lower. i was wanting to go with an 18-20 inch barrel.
 
Nice AK, I'm on board for updates here as well.

Good call on the 1:8" twist brother. It's a great middle ground that can handle a wide range of bullet weights...
 
Yeah, the BCM barrel had a 1/8 as well, I just never put good enough glass on it to really learn it's potential. This will be a dedicated build, so down the road I'll be asking for glass advice.

I'm thinking about a spikes upper and lower from PA, they're running at decent prices right now. I haven't decided on a BCG, but the BCM one never gave me troubles and have a great rep. Stock decision hasn't been made either... the Magpul UBR looks and sounds awesome, but might be a little heavy for my taste (and $$$ for a stock). I know what I want in a trigger but not which one.... 3.5lbs single stage, any suggestions? Although I'm a huge troy fanboy, but my rail will be a 15" Midwest Ind Gen2 SS... at 10 oz that's a good buy.
 
If you're looking for weight savings, don't go with the UBR.

I have one on my mid-length and love it, but the stock is a heavy booger at a little over 1.5 lb. I run pretty simple single-stage triggers on most of mine which all pull at around 5 lb. To get down into the 3.5 lb range I'd look into CMC Tactical set-ups, I've heard great things about 'em. Pretty sure that's what @oli700 is using in his...
 
Why an "intermediate" gas port placement?

Sure that it may cycle softer, but at a cost. Less dwell time. And even less than a regular midlength.

To me, while less dwell time does equate to a "softer shooting" gun, but it's not like the 223/556 is really massive in the recoil department anyway, but the biggest downfall would seem to be less power to cycle the action once it starts becoming fouled which makes me wonder at how much sooner it will take to start seeing failures.

I'm not knocking you AKsavanaman, but I'm not so sure about what you're gaining using an "intermediate" gas length. Seems like a step in the wrong direction, but I would be interested to see how many rounds you could go without cleaning it before you start to see cycling failures if that's something you'd be willing to do for "scientific research". ;)

I saw a discussion on another forum about another barrel with "intermediate" gas port placement, but I think they said they were White Oak Armament barrels.

As for the rest of the specs it sounds like it'll be accurate (which was your main goal for the project).

The Wylde chamber has been around for a long time and it does good for both 223 and 556. The 1:8 twist in my opinion is the most ideal twist rate to date in that it will shoot the widest majority of bullet weights available for the AR.
 
Why an "intermediate" gas port placement?

Sure that it may cycle softer, but at a cost. Less dwell time. And even less than a regular midlength.

To me, while less dwell time does equate to a "softer shooting" gun, but it's not like the 223/556 is really massive in the recoil department anyway, but the biggest downfall would seem to be less power to cycle the action once it starts becoming fouled which makes me wonder at how much sooner it will take to start seeing failures.

I'm not knocking you AKsavanaman, but I'm not so sure about what you're gaining using an "intermediate" gas length. Seems like a step in the wrong direction, but I would be interested to see how many rounds you could go without cleaning it before you start to see cycling failures if that's something you'd be willing to do for "scientific research". ;)

.

Yeah... if you supply the few thousand rounds!:p

I'm a little confused about your reasoning... wouldn't rifle length gas systems suffer from the same issues then? The intermediate is between Mid and Rifle btw. To be honest with you, I didn't do a crazy amount of research on the intermediate gas length. From what I understand it was created because the rifle length barrels normally have the gasblock hanging out in front of the handguard. But the reviews I did read were all very favorable. Noveske makes a barrel that's pretty similar to this Odin Works one.

Besides... this will not be a primary go-to platform and I doubt I'll ever put enough rounds through it in one session to start seeing failures.
 
Midlength gas port = 9" out
Intermediate gas port = 10.5" out
Rifle length gas port = 12" out
( ^ rough measurements for comparison)

With an 18" barrel and rifle length gas system the distance between gas port and muzzle is 6". Same length (18") barrel with an intermediate length gas system puts distance between port and muzzle at 7.5".

Essentially, an intermediate length gas system on an 18" barrel will yield the same dwell time as a 16.5" barrel with a mid-length gas system. The intermediate set-up will push higher pressure than rifle length gas on the 18" barrel which in theory should produce higher muzzle velocity. The difference in dwell time is in milliseconds though, so any increase in effective range gained by the higher muzzle velocity will be by a relatively small margin...
 
My Dissapator w/ rifle length tube has absolutely zero issues and shoots great with irons. I have a PRO on it but it actually isn't necessary.
 
There isn't a round in the 223/556 that 1:8 wont stabilize.
A magazine won’t hold the rounds a 1:8 can stabilize, anything longer than a 77gr will need to be shot in single shot mode.
Wilde is an interesting chamber. It "should" be a more accurate chamber because the rifling starts sooner almost like a 223 chamber, throat tighter than a 556 Almost as accurate as a .223 Remington chamber yet can shoot 556 NATO because of a play on dimensions.....all subjective to ammo and shooter.
Regardless the Chamber isn’t magic, it will show pressure sighs before a NATO chamber, probably only a problem for a reloader, or stout ammo like some MAL 556 , Underwood, Double Tap
Reloading opens so many doors as far as choice.....too many sometimes. The Wilde chamber is said to shoot 80gr VLD very very well if you can play with the lengths, can you play with length ?

I think my main problem with that build was that I was trying to accomplish to many things with one rifle.
18" stainless barrel
.223 Wylde chambering
1/8 twist
"intermediate" gas system length
These are the choices of a person who wants too many things out of a rifle LOL
Can’t be building three rifles trying to cover all the bases, what are you going to do ? Carry all of them and just pull one off your back that applies to the current situation, not realistic.

This one was quoted just for LOLZ
it may just offer a very ballanced recoil signiture..
Dude , check out my rifle, it offers one quite the balanced recoil impulse signature.
you are to hand it to the first native Alaskan you can find and say that but you must get it on video

. Noveske makes a barrel that's pretty similar to this Odin Works one.
no, Oden Works makes one like Noveske
all you guys talking about the size of your tube, it’s all in the gas port size.

To get down into the 3.5 lb range I'd look into CMC Tactical set-ups, I've heard great things about 'em. Pretty sure that's what @oli700 is using in his...
yep that is what I run . slightly better for than mispec for shooting groups, way better for shooting fast.
If I weren't trying to do too many things with one rifle than I would totally have an even lighter two stage no question.

You better be sub MOA with all your fancy gear or I am going to harass you further
 
Reloading opens so many doors as far as choice.....too many sometimes. The Wilde chamber is said to shoot 80gr VLD very very well if you can play with the lengths, can you play with length ?

That's down the road... I just got the chickens out of my garage... reloading to follow;)

18" stainless barrel
.223 Wylde chambering
1/8 twist
"intermediate" gas system length
These are the choices of a person who wants too many things out of a rifle LOL
Can’t be building three rifles trying to cover all the bases, what are you going to do ? Carry all of them and just pull one off your back that applies to the current situation, not realistic.
Um... duh... I've got one on a single point, the second one strapped to my back, and the third is sitting in a tripod mounted helmet device! Get with the program, it's the only way to kill zombies!

While I certainly could've gone with a 20" or even a 24" varmint barrel, I would like to stay somewhat "practical" (I'd have to buy a new case for a 20" gun... that's just to much:eek:). I really can't answer what role this will fill... if it shoots well and I do my part... I didn't loose right?

Dude , check out my rifle, it offers one quite the balanced recoil impulse signature.
you are to hand it to the first native Alaskan you can find and say that but you must get it on video

Challenge accepted!

no, Oden Works makes one like Noveske
all you guys talking about the size of your tube, it’s all in the gas port size.

Regardless, it's the size that matters... and sorry for my timeline error, won't happen again!


yep that is what I run . slightly better for than mispec for shooting groups, way better for shooting fast.If I weren't trying to do too many things with one rifle than I would totally have an even lighter two stage no question.

I had the Geissle SSA and really didn't like the 2 stage. No matter how I "pulled" through the trigger I couldn't get used to it. Suggestions will be welcomed

You better be sub MOA with all your fancy gear or I am going to harass you further

What do I get if I shoot sub MOA with factory ammo... yardage stipulations? I smell fear....
 
Midlength gas port = 9" out
Intermediate gas port = 10.5" out
Rifle length gas port = 12" out
( ^ rough measurements for comparison)

Essentially, an intermediate length gas system on an 18" barrel will yield the same dwell time as a 16.5" barrel with a mid-length gas system. The intermediate set-up will push higher pressure than rifle length gas on the 18" barrel which in theory should produce higher muzzle velocity. The difference in dwell time is in milliseconds though, so any increase in effective range gained by the higher muzzle velocity will be by a relatively small margin...

The dwell time with a bullet in any normal barrel length is always in milliseconds LES. ;)

But while the pressure in the intermediate gas system may be slightly higher due to the placement, with the decreased dwell time, the pressure will spike harder, but not as for long. Which was the point I was trying to make.

@nitesite, I have an 8.5" sbr barrel with a 6" pistol gas port placement. You can't get much more extreme in gas port placement than that and it cycles right too. But I really had to keep it clean, which was what my point to AKsavanaman was about.
 
all you guys talking about the size of your tube, it’s all in the gas port size.

Agreed, gas port distance/tube length is only one part of the equation. Buffer weight, properly tuned extractor springs, and especially port diameter will all make a difference...
 
Agreed, gas port distance/tube length is only one part of the equation. Buffer weight, properly tuned extractor springs, and especially port diameter will all make a difference...

Agreed wholeheartedly. Just about any barrel style can be made to function correctly.

But I am partial to keeping with the original Stoner design too. That's all I was saying.

I don't think there would be much dispute that the 20" rifle length is the most dependable, softest shooting, and more effective range than the M4's and the old 11.5" CARs for various reasons.

But I am still looking forward to hearing how this project turns out. I'm sure that AK will be pleased.
 
and especially port diameter will all make a difference...
that's what I am talking about

I had the Geissle SSA and really didn't like the 2 stage. No matter how I "pulled" through the trigger I couldn't get used to it. Suggestions will be welcomed
Then you are going to really suck with a CMC, my suggestion, worry less about gear and more about the human factor…should be almost as good as it gets with a SSA for shooting groups. If you can’t pull that trigger right you need to back up son……yeah back it up……..you don’t pull through a two stage IMO , but hey it looks like you’re a pretty good fisherman….you might be able to trade that rifle for a couple real nice Lamiglas rods

Regardless, it's the size that matters... and sorry for my timeline error, won't happen again!
That’s what she said…..and yes it will, it will happen again.
I actually have no clue what came first but JN never followed anyone, especially someone who named their company after a fictional Norse god, and besides that I really like hazing you

Challenge accepted!
Followed very quickly by the ass kicking of your life

What do I get if I shoot sub MOA with factory ammo... yardage stipulations? I smell fear....
Lol….rifle isn’t even built yet, can’t pull a Geissele, sold a BCM cuz “wouldn’t do anything good”……no , I’m not skeered…..your probably going to get some scope that can see the paper fibers of the target……don’t forget, you can put a cat in the oven but that doesn’t make it a biscuit, now go swab the deck
 
I never realized my barrel choice would spark this much debate;)
I don't think there would be much dispute that the 20" rifle length is the most dependable, softest shooting, and more effective range than the M4's and the old 11.5" CARs for various reasons.

John, I certainly agree that the original still is the best when considering all the attributes you listed. I actually have a few buffers I can try out to see what will work best with this gas length. The only downside I see is parts availability... I may need to buy another gas tube just in case (but then again, I wouldn't think this to be the first failure point... if any)
 
Then you are going to really suck with a CMC, my suggestion, worry less about gear and more about the human factor…should be almost as good as it gets with a SSA for shooting groups. If you can’t pull that trigger right you need to back up son……yeah back it up……..you don’t pull through a two stage IMO , but hey it looks like you’re a pretty good fisherman….you might be able to trade that rifle for a couple real nice Lamiglas rods

I bet you I could shoot just fine groups with a standard milspec trigger, and I'll gladly hold off on a $$$ trigger to prove that to ya. I personally still like my ACT trigger the best out of any I've tried. I just don't like a two stage in general... maybe it's just my inexperience with firearms and my mallninja status to blame?

That’s what she said…..and yes it will, it will happen again.
I actually have no clue what came first but JN never followed anyone, especially someone who named their company after a fictional Norse god, and besides that I really like hazing you

I bet you have a few pictures on your desk of JN you like to shmooze to throughout the day, whatever keeps you happy my friend. I promise it won't improve your groups!


Lol….rifle isn’t even built yet, can’t pull a Geissele, sold a BCM cuz “wouldn’t do anything good”……no , I’m not skeered…..your probably going to get some scope that can see the paper fibers of the target……don’t forget, you can put a cat in the oven but that doesn’t make it a biscuit, now go swab the deck

You're right, it isn't built... and while we are making bets on MOA accuracy, I'm not sure how it will all come together. You do know me well enough by now that you've got me figured out... it'll probably be the latest and greatest... at least 25 power...with dodads and trinkets...I've gotta try and make up for shaddy fundamentals and a big mouth somehow;)

Oh and P.S: I don't swab the deck anymore, I make others do it for me.
 
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