Water
- Thread starter Mudinyeri
- Start date
Let me ask an honest question. I'm not wanting to hijack the topic, but I have always wondered something.
I know where 3 or 4 streams start.
Meaning, I know where they first come out of the ground.
My question is how "clean" is that water?
That one stream, the water is so good. It's almost sweet tasting (lots of limestone and other natural deposits in that area). It tastes great and is like you took it straight out of the fridge on a hot day.
I started drinking it and drank until I sloshed when I walked.
I didn't get sick from it or anything and I have drank from it a few different occasions.
But I don't understand it being way back in the woods and nothing even nearby, and being on top of a mountain, there could be a lot "wrong" with it.
The mountain is pretty tall and what I was getting at there was there shouldn't be any contaminents seeping into the water level there from other places. When I mean it's remote, it really is. Nothing above that stream but sky.
Just curious what you guys thought about gathering from the headwaters of streams.
I know where 3 or 4 streams start.
Meaning, I know where they first come out of the ground.
My question is how "clean" is that water?
That one stream, the water is so good. It's almost sweet tasting (lots of limestone and other natural deposits in that area). It tastes great and is like you took it straight out of the fridge on a hot day.
I started drinking it and drank until I sloshed when I walked.
I didn't get sick from it or anything and I have drank from it a few different occasions.
But I don't understand it being way back in the woods and nothing even nearby, and being on top of a mountain, there could be a lot "wrong" with it.
The mountain is pretty tall and what I was getting at there was there shouldn't be any contaminents seeping into the water level there from other places. When I mean it's remote, it really is. Nothing above that stream but sky.
Just curious what you guys thought about gathering from the headwaters of streams.
Expat_PM
.270 WIN
Mud,
Great question.
In SHTF of TEOTWAKI situations you have a two pronged issue: immediate needs and long term needs.
I handle the immediate needs (or expect to) in a few different ways: chemical purification and physical purification.
For chemical I have a number of the little bottles of purification tables. these are great for purifying small quantities of water immediately and while they don't remove heavy metals or any of that rot, they do a good job of killing what is most likely to put you down in a "chocolate water" situation.
You should also store a few cases of bleach for purifying larger quantities. It is very effective and cheap and can be stored indefinitely (longer than you will need to worry about).
there are other products out there but I selected these two because I got a great deal on a case of the little bottles and because the warehouse club my wife shops at had the bleach incredibly cheap.
For physical purification there are countless great options.
First go buy a couple purification systems like the Katadyn filter bag. It's just a big bag that has a drip filter in the bottom and it works great. I've used them in developing areas of the world and they generate clean water quickly and efficiently. buy several spare filters and store it all in your bug out gear.
Boiling is always a good option but again it doesn't remove heavy metals and things of that type unless you actually set up a distilling process.
All good for near term.
for long term you need to find a fairly clean source ans then build a natural filtration system using lots of gravel and sand and organic matter in a free flowing filtered pathway that outputs large quantities of clean water.
finally, go online and find one of the water test kits and buy it and throw that in your BOB. You want one that let's you make several tests and get the results right on the spot (they are similar to what you use to test aquarium water for your fishies). Once you get to your TEOTWAKI location you can begin searching for and testing water sources to get your long term supply secured.
Okay, this is too long but you hit on a topic about which I'm passionate
Great question.
In SHTF of TEOTWAKI situations you have a two pronged issue: immediate needs and long term needs.
I handle the immediate needs (or expect to) in a few different ways: chemical purification and physical purification.
For chemical I have a number of the little bottles of purification tables. these are great for purifying small quantities of water immediately and while they don't remove heavy metals or any of that rot, they do a good job of killing what is most likely to put you down in a "chocolate water" situation.
You should also store a few cases of bleach for purifying larger quantities. It is very effective and cheap and can be stored indefinitely (longer than you will need to worry about).
there are other products out there but I selected these two because I got a great deal on a case of the little bottles and because the warehouse club my wife shops at had the bleach incredibly cheap.
For physical purification there are countless great options.
First go buy a couple purification systems like the Katadyn filter bag. It's just a big bag that has a drip filter in the bottom and it works great. I've used them in developing areas of the world and they generate clean water quickly and efficiently. buy several spare filters and store it all in your bug out gear.
Boiling is always a good option but again it doesn't remove heavy metals and things of that type unless you actually set up a distilling process.
All good for near term.
for long term you need to find a fairly clean source ans then build a natural filtration system using lots of gravel and sand and organic matter in a free flowing filtered pathway that outputs large quantities of clean water.
finally, go online and find one of the water test kits and buy it and throw that in your BOB. You want one that let's you make several tests and get the results right on the spot (they are similar to what you use to test aquarium water for your fishies). Once you get to your TEOTWAKI location you can begin searching for and testing water sources to get your long term supply secured.
Okay, this is too long but you hit on a topic about which I'm passionate
John A. said:
Can you get a topo map and look into it that way? also google maps has a version of the maps you check out to see if there was anything there before years ago..
Link...
http://www.google.com/earth/learn/begin ... al-imagery
you'd probably have to download google earth to view the map though...
As it goes back in time, the quality isn't that good, and it's black n white too....
I've hiked there numerous times when I was younger.
I've never seen a topo map of it, but it's a forest and overlooks most of the surrounding terrain. Nothing around it for miles any direction, and I'm certain nothing other than maybe a few 1800's homestead's or two has ever been there.
I know of one old house seat was downstream of it near a little waterfall, and several natural cave systems that have indian markings and thigs, so it was used way back when, but nothing in recent history because it's too remote and inaccessbile. No roads, not even any foot trails.
It's probably about as virgin forest as you can get.
I've never seen a topo map of it, but it's a forest and overlooks most of the surrounding terrain. Nothing around it for miles any direction, and I'm certain nothing other than maybe a few 1800's homestead's or two has ever been there.
I know of one old house seat was downstream of it near a little waterfall, and several natural cave systems that have indian markings and thigs, so it was used way back when, but nothing in recent history because it's too remote and inaccessbile. No roads, not even any foot trails.
It's probably about as virgin forest as you can get.
Fronty Owner
.270 WIN
gathering water at the source is pretty safe.John A. said:
There is no opportunity for contamination.
That said, I would follow a bit further up to make sure its not just underground for a few feet.
When in doubt, boil. and stuff a few pine needles in there, it makes drinking hot water taste better.
nasa
.270 WIN
I have water filters in place on my faucets and a portable filter. My main source is from a well 295 feet deep that requires a sizable generator to continue in the event of a power failure. In my B.O.B. have some water purification tablets, a few cases of bottled water and several 5 gallon water jugs. I'm still working of getting a windmill for my other water well.
When I was much younger, I once scooped up water caught on a rock after a light shower and drank it with no apparent problems but I wouldn't do it today.
I figure that the springs in my area might not be good for drinking. Most likely they are fed from water caught over about a seven mile area from rain because they seem to run for about 3 to 6 months after a good rain. I'm not worried about what is on top of the ground when it rains but what the rains bring with them. As a youngster, I was told never eat the first show. I now suggest that you never eat the snow or drink fresh rain water unless you are in dire need of the water and stand to die of dehydration if you don't.
On another note, wash your hands often and especially after handling you feet or foot wear and wash you produce well before eating it.
When I was much younger, I once scooped up water caught on a rock after a light shower and drank it with no apparent problems but I wouldn't do it today.
I figure that the springs in my area might not be good for drinking. Most likely they are fed from water caught over about a seven mile area from rain because they seem to run for about 3 to 6 months after a good rain. I'm not worried about what is on top of the ground when it rains but what the rains bring with them. As a youngster, I was told never eat the first show. I now suggest that you never eat the snow or drink fresh rain water unless you are in dire need of the water and stand to die of dehydration if you don't.
On another note, wash your hands often and especially after handling you feet or foot wear and wash you produce well before eating it.
Good replies everyone. Here are a few more thoughts:
1. Regardless of where you live, your alternative water sources have the potential for contamination. Wether it be run-off in suburban areas from lawn fertilizer or ground water penetration by farming practices in more rural areas, there are a number of ways in which water can be hazardous to you. Make sure your purification techniques have the ability to truly purify your water.
2. Like many things, a multi-layered approach to purification is the safest. We have a home-made 4 gallon filtration system based on the Berkey Black filters. Additionally, we have chlorinated bleach and water purification tablets. We also have a propane-fired cook stove that can boil water in fairly large quantities. Utilizing all three methods to purify water that has been acquired near "civilization" is not a bad idea.
3. Scout your immediate area as well as any bug-out locations for multiple sources of water. For example, our house was built over an underground spring. We have three sump pumps where we could collect water in spring, summer and fall. There is also a creek about 150-200 yards from our house. It freezes pretty much solid in the winter, however. Winter would be a difficult time to find water for many people. Melting snow is not highly productive. It takes a lot of snow, power and time to produce much water.
1. Regardless of where you live, your alternative water sources have the potential for contamination. Wether it be run-off in suburban areas from lawn fertilizer or ground water penetration by farming practices in more rural areas, there are a number of ways in which water can be hazardous to you. Make sure your purification techniques have the ability to truly purify your water.
2. Like many things, a multi-layered approach to purification is the safest. We have a home-made 4 gallon filtration system based on the Berkey Black filters. Additionally, we have chlorinated bleach and water purification tablets. We also have a propane-fired cook stove that can boil water in fairly large quantities. Utilizing all three methods to purify water that has been acquired near "civilization" is not a bad idea.
3. Scout your immediate area as well as any bug-out locations for multiple sources of water. For example, our house was built over an underground spring. We have three sump pumps where we could collect water in spring, summer and fall. There is also a creek about 150-200 yards from our house. It freezes pretty much solid in the winter, however. Winter would be a difficult time to find water for many people. Melting snow is not highly productive. It takes a lot of snow, power and time to produce much water.
Don’t forget no matter how remote a place in the PNW there is always a threat for Giardia or “beaver fever” Usually ground water is good and small sources of surface water but the bigger the stream,creek,river the higher the threat.
When I go to Alaska for fires they always say don’t drink from ANY natural water source unless you’re about to die, because beaver fever is so bad
When I go to Alaska for fires they always say don’t drink from ANY natural water source unless you’re about to die, because beaver fever is so bad
Which gravity filter would you recommend?
I don't know what the lifespan is of the filters that use "candles" and I prefer if I'm going to buy a filter to get as much use out of it as humanly possibly without needing replacement filters and the likes very often. (never would be even better)
I don't think I require a fast flow rate. Maybe 4 gallons per day max for consumption. The rest for cooking and such can probably be boiled and cooled for those times when I may need water in a hurry.
What would you folks recommend?
I don't know what the lifespan is of the filters that use "candles" and I prefer if I'm going to buy a filter to get as much use out of it as humanly possibly without needing replacement filters and the likes very often. (never would be even better)
I don't think I require a fast flow rate. Maybe 4 gallons per day max for consumption. The rest for cooking and such can probably be boiled and cooled for those times when I may need water in a hurry.
What would you folks recommend?
Here's what I did:
There's really nothing on the market that compares to the Berkey filters. They're actually classified as purifiers. They have a price tag to match, however, so I came up with my own DIY gravity-feed filter for just the cost of the Berkey filters ($107.00) and a spigot ($10.00). While that's still not "cheap" it's half the cost of the least expensive Berkey and mine holds 4 gallons.
Materials Needed:
2 Black Berkey Filter Elements: $107.00
1 Berkey Light Spigot: $10.00
2 Four-gallon Food-grade Plastic Buckets (free at Sam's Club)
Tools Needed:
Drill
3/8" Drill Bit
5/8" Drill Bit
Step 1: Stack the buckets and drill two 3/8" holes through the bottom of the top bucket and the lid of the bottom bucket
Step 2: Insert the threaded tubes of the filter elements through the bottom of the top bucket and the lid of the bottom bucket. Screw the keeper nuts onto the filters and tighten them to finger-tight (do not over-tighten). The included washer should be on the filter tube inside the top bucket.
At this point your buckets should look like this:
Step 3: Drill a 5/8" hole in the side of the bottom bucket near the bottom. Make sure you leave enough room for the spigot's nozzle below the hole. Slide the threaded spigot tube through the hole and tighten down the keeper nut. There should be a washer on either side of the bucket.
Your finished filter will look like this.
CAUTION: Do not pick up the filter system by the handle of the top bucket. This puts undue stress on the filters themselves. You may want to remove the handle to prevent this from happening accidentally.
There's really nothing on the market that compares to the Berkey filters. They're actually classified as purifiers. They have a price tag to match, however, so I came up with my own DIY gravity-feed filter for just the cost of the Berkey filters ($107.00) and a spigot ($10.00). While that's still not "cheap" it's half the cost of the least expensive Berkey and mine holds 4 gallons.
Materials Needed:
2 Black Berkey Filter Elements: $107.00
1 Berkey Light Spigot: $10.00
2 Four-gallon Food-grade Plastic Buckets (free at Sam's Club)
Tools Needed:
Drill
3/8" Drill Bit
5/8" Drill Bit
Step 1: Stack the buckets and drill two 3/8" holes through the bottom of the top bucket and the lid of the bottom bucket
Step 2: Insert the threaded tubes of the filter elements through the bottom of the top bucket and the lid of the bottom bucket. Screw the keeper nuts onto the filters and tighten them to finger-tight (do not over-tighten). The included washer should be on the filter tube inside the top bucket.
At this point your buckets should look like this:
Step 3: Drill a 5/8" hole in the side of the bottom bucket near the bottom. Make sure you leave enough room for the spigot's nozzle below the hole. Slide the threaded spigot tube through the hole and tighten down the keeper nut. There should be a washer on either side of the bucket.
Your finished filter will look like this.
CAUTION: Do not pick up the filter system by the handle of the top bucket. This puts undue stress on the filters themselves. You may want to remove the handle to prevent this from happening accidentally.
It's the thought that counts. 
On a related note, I checked with my local grocer/deli and they told me they had 6 of the big buckets (I'm assuming 5 gallon buckets) with lids, and they didn't charge for them, but she said I'd have to sterilize/clean them myself, which isnt' a problem.
I also found a couple of ceramic and carbon filters for about half the price of the ones you linked and said they were cleanable, but I don't know enough about them to make an educated decision.
What do you think?
On a related note, I checked with my local grocer/deli and they told me they had 6 of the big buckets (I'm assuming 5 gallon buckets) with lids, and they didn't charge for them, but she said I'd have to sterilize/clean them myself, which isnt' a problem.
I also found a couple of ceramic and carbon filters for about half the price of the ones you linked and said they were cleanable, but I don't know enough about them to make an educated decision.
What do you think?
Doulton 10" Super Sterasyl Ceramic Gravity Filter
Technical Details:
Replacement ceramic filter for gravity filter systems
Super Sterasyl outer ceramic shell, Activated carbon inside
Filters are self steralizing and re-cleanable
10" in length. Includes rubber washer and wing nut
Product Description
Doulton filters use the age-old process of micro-porous filtration used by nature coupled with modern state-of-the-art technology and the highest quality materials to produce one of the finest water filtration systems available anywhere. At the core of the sub-micron ceramic filter is the most basic of elements: Diatomaceous Earth. This is the same substance, which artisans refine into exquisite porcelain and pottery. The microscopic pores of the ceramic filter element make it an extremely efficient filter for the reduction of particulate matter, pathogenic bacteria and fine sediment from water. Minute particulate matter will quickly plug media style filters, but the ceramics have the added benefit of being re-cleanable and re-useable. The Super Sterasyl element utilizes the latest technological advances of ceramic filtration by incorporating pure silver impregnation into the porous ceramic shell to inhibit the growth of bacteria. Furthermore, the Super Sterasyl ceramic filter elements contain activated carbon, which reduces unwanted chemical and organic compounds from the water while also improving taste. Each filter can be cleaned many, many times before needing replacement. If using tap water, the filters will normally only need to be cleaned every 6 months. You will know when your filters need to be cleaned because the filtration rate will slow down. To clean, simply rub the filters with a scotch-brite pad under running water.
OK, so far so good.
I know the tutorial said to get 2 jugs, but I got 3.
For the main reason that 2 of them will be used for the filter top and the reservoir bottom, and the 3rd jug, to fetch water and carry it to the filter.
And these jugs were free too.
Obviously I had to get all of the cake icing out of them, but that didn't take as long as I thought it would after I started eating with that gravy spoon instead of that little tablespoon that I started with.
Just kidding.
But I used a little clorox in with the soap because I had no idea what conditions they were stored when empty to kill any germs that may've been present.
On a related noted, I added it up and you said the filters were good for 6000 gallons (2 filters). That would be 1200 hash marks. You're going to have a fun time trying to count all of those near the end of its' service life.
I know the tutorial said to get 2 jugs, but I got 3.
For the main reason that 2 of them will be used for the filter top and the reservoir bottom, and the 3rd jug, to fetch water and carry it to the filter.
And these jugs were free too.
Obviously I had to get all of the cake icing out of them, but that didn't take as long as I thought it would after I started eating with that gravy spoon instead of that little tablespoon that I started with.
Just kidding.
But I used a little clorox in with the soap because I had no idea what conditions they were stored when empty to kill any germs that may've been present.
On a related noted, I added it up and you said the filters were good for 6000 gallons (2 filters). That would be 1200 hash marks. You're going to have a fun time trying to count all of those near the end of its' service life.
LOL ... you're right, John. 1200 marks is a lot! I'll segment them into 100's, I guess.
I'm not familiar with the filters in your picture but you can compare their specs to the Berkey filters on the Berkey site.
I wash all my buckets with a liquid dish soap - to cut the grease - and then a mild chlorox solution to sanitize them. Most of mine come from Sam's Club. They're frosting buckets. Looks like you're on the right track.
I'm not familiar with the filters in your picture but you can compare their specs to the Berkey filters on the Berkey site.
I wash all my buckets with a liquid dish soap - to cut the grease - and then a mild chlorox solution to sanitize them. Most of mine come from Sam's Club. They're frosting buckets. Looks like you're on the right track.
I read through the berkey website and it looks like they can also filter out viruses, which is a major concern if you are forced to filter water that you ordinarily wouldn't consider drinking.
I'll probably decide on the Berkey filters
I'll probably decide on the Berkey filters