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What laser are you using?

Perhaps the Shockwave is best suited to "instinctive shooting"......Being very confident in your ability to hit your target without sights.
I don't think this is difficult. It just takes "trigger time", and this costs money. Perhaps I am being lazy or cheap when looking for a daytime laser, by not investing in trigger time. Maybe I should rethink my strategy and spend more time on the range.
 
Rico said:
Perhaps the Shockwave is best suited to "instinctive shooting"......Being very confident in your ability to hit your target without sights.
I don't think this is difficult. It just takes "trigger time", and this costs money. Perhaps I am being lazy or cheap when looking for a daytime laser, by not investing in trigger time. Maybe I should rethink my strategy and spend more time on the range.
Click to expand...

This post deserves being read. Then read again. Then contemplated.

TY Rico.
 
John A. said:
I am not blind to the fact that there were a lot of people killed in violent crimes. And why I tend to take the security and safety of my home seriously.
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I do as well, but I'm realistic about the threats. If it comes to bangers or others determined to run straight into gunfire, I have guns better suited to that role. The Shockwave represents one layer of HD, but can fill other roles (truck gun or hiking gun) as well.
 
Know this is not specifically "laser" related but the discussion within this thread appears to be expanding with a focus on training versus technology. Just a couple of thoughts regarding that training. While repetitive training is basic to achieving excellence, understanding your most likely threat scenario(s) and selecting the proper ammo is just as important to your training regiment. For example:

Home / Facility Defense - need to take a look at the layout of the home or facility, most likely entry points and most importantly, potential engagement distances. In most moderate sized homes the engagement distances are typically 3 to 5 yards. A long hallway or down a flight of stairs might be 7 yards. Your home may be diffrent, but understanding the mostly likely engagement distances is important as you select what ammunition to use. Not going to get into a debate regarding the merits of buckshot over birdshot or slugs. Your choice. However, you will quickly find, for example, that all OO buckshot is not the same. You really need to pattern different brands from your weapon to see which one best fits the most likely scenario you're training for. For example, flight control buckshot "might" not be the best choice for very short engagement distances. While the old standard of 1 inch of expansion per yard beyond the muzzle is an approximation you will likely find that different brands, as well as high and low brass, have different expansion rates out of your Shockwave. Suggest you pattern from 3 to 9 yards to really understand the expansion rates. Once you've patterned several brands you can make a logical choice of what's best for your particular situation.

In an outdoor scenario the worst threat you might encounter should dictate the type of ammo you select and train with. If you need slugs for bears then a majority of your training should be with slugs. If birdshot will do then train mainly with birdshot. With training, there is no reason you can't shoot something like a 3 inch Brenneke bear slug utilizing an aimed shot.

Just some random thoughts for your consideration. If the moderators think this belongs somewhere else please move it. Regards.
 
Ernst said:
Know this is not specifically "laser" related but the discussion within this thread appears to be expanding with a focus on training versus technology. Just a couple of thoughts regarding that training. While repetitive training is basic to achieving excellence, understanding your most likely threat scenario(s) and selecting the proper ammo is just as important to your training regiment. For example:

Home / Facility Defense - need to take a look at the layout of the home or facility, most likely entry points and most importantly, potential engagement distances. In most moderate sized homes the engagement distances are typically 3 to 5 yards. A long hallway or down a flight of stairs might be 7 yards. Your home may be diffrent, but understanding the mostly likely engagement distances is important as you select what ammunition to use. Not going to get into a debate regarding the merits of buckshot over birdshot or slugs. Your choice. However, you will quickly find, for example, that all OO buckshot is not the same. You really need to pattern different brands from your weapon to see which one best fits the most likely scenario you're training for. For example, flight control buckshot "might" not be the best choice for very short engagement distances. While the old standard of 1 inch of expansion per yard beyond the muzzle is an approximation you will likely find that different brands, as well as high and low brass, have different expansion rates out of your Shockwave. Suggest you pattern from 3 to 9 yards to really understand the expansion rates. Once you've patterned several brands you can make a logical choice of what's best for your particular situation.

In an outdoor scenario the worst threat you might encounter should dictate the type of ammo you select and train with. If you need slugs for bears then a majority of your training should be with slugs. If birdshot will do then train mainly with birdshot. With training, there is no reason you can't shoot something like a 3 inch Brenneke bear slug utilizing an aimed shot.

Just some random thoughts for your consideration. If the moderators think this belongs somewhere else please move it. Regards.
Click to expand...

Excellent post Ernst.
 
My Crimson Trace laser came today, and I'm pretty pleased with it so far. I used my red laser bore-sight and lined up the CT green laser to match on the side of the shed about 40' away. Closer in the two dots are separated by an inch or so due to the offset of the rail from the barrel. I'll keep fiddling with it but right now I could easily put a slug into the lock on the shed door shooting from the hip.
 
Cool, when will you be able to put that to test? I’m very interested in hearing how it goes!
 
Which laser bore sight are you using? I've tried several, but none of them aligned well enough to trust without live firing the gun.
 
MAINSAIL said:
My Crimson Trace laser came today, and I'm pretty pleased with it so far. I used my red laser bore-sight and lined up the CT green laser to match on the side of the shed about 40' away. Closer in the two dots are separated by an inch or so due to the offset of the rail from the barrel. I'll keep fiddling with it but right now I could easily put a slug into the lock on the shed door shooting from the hip.
Click to expand...
Yes, useable in daytime and with sun, probably what most want to see along with how far does the beam project?

Appreciate you willingness and your effort in being the groups test platform. Thanks.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
John A. said:
Which laser bore sight are you using? I've tried several, but none of them aligned well enough to trust without live firing the gun.
Click to expand...

I agree and my experience as well. Some are better than others. If you’re able, turn the laser bore sight a full 360 degrees and mark the point incrementally so if it is off, it will make a complete circle. It may be negligible. It may be a lot.

At closer distances, it surely won’t make much difference at all in the size circle it makes. But, depending on the load, (slugs, FliteControl) it could make a tremendous difference. Not enough on a man sized target I wouldn’t think. But you’re talking slugs so aim small miss small and what not.

Forgive me, I have to admit I really can’t wrap my head around hip firing.
 
You really don't need a sight-in laser. Just, first, sight along the side of the barrel and note where the axis of the bore is pointed at the distance you intend to use. Then adjust the elevation of the shooting laser to match the point where the axis of the barrel hits. Then sight along the top of the barrel and repeat the adjustment using the windage to match the point where the axis of the barrel hits. This will get you close enough to hit a target fairly close and then just adjust after shooting to refine the alignment.

Also, if your laser is sighted in to hit at 20 yards and is mounted say 2" above the bore then, with no adjustment, you will hit about 2" low at 40 yards. Close enough.
 
Trying to get to all the questions...

The laser is this model I got on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SBXH84E/

It's very bright, two or three times brighter than the bore sight laser or the Barska, maybe more. No sunlight today so I can't say positively that it's bright enough to see in the direct sunlight, but I'm at 99% that it is.

The bore-sighter is a Sight-Mark. I tried it in my coach gun and while holding the gun as still as I could and there was no discernible movement of the dot due to the my spinning it in the bore. I did this from a distance of about 20 feet.

Hip shooting is only one option when you aren't going to look down the sights, or if you're not able to look down the sights. Shooting across the passenger seat in the case of a car-jack attempt is one example. A right-handed person shooting around a left barricade is another. Under a car maybe. It isn't binary; I haven't taken the bead off so down the sights is still an option, the laser is just added versatility.

I still need to noodle at what distance I want it to be sighted.

EDIT to add: The sun came out! I took the laser outside and from 20' I could find the dot on the shed well enough. Beyond that it got harder. Pointing the laser on a shady spot while the full sun was out made the dot very easy to see. For training outside that's probably good enough.
 
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MAINSAIL said:
Trying to get to all the questions...

The laser is this model I got on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SBXH84E/

It's very bright, two or three times brighter than the bore sight laser or the Barska, maybe more. No sunlight today so I can't say positively that it's bright enough to see in the direct sunlight, but I'm at 99% that it is.

The bore-sighter is a Sight-Mark. I tried it in my coach gun and while holding the gun as still as I could and there was no discernible movement of the dot due to the my spinning it in the bore. I did this from a distance of about 20 feet.

Hip shooting is only one option when you aren't going to look down the sights, or if you're not able to look down the sights. Shooting across the passenger seat in the case of a car-jack attempt is one example. A right-handed person shooting around a left barricade is another. Under a car maybe. It isn't binary; I haven't taken the bead off so down the sights is still an option, the laser is just added versatility.

I still need to noodle at what distance I want it to be sighted.

EDIT to add: The sun came out! I took the laser outside and from 20' I could find the dot on the shed well enough. Beyond that it got harder. Pointing the laser on a shady spot while the full sun was out made the dot very easy to see. For training outside that's probably good enough.
Click to expand...
So the previously stated 200 yard visibilty was a pipe dream...as I suspected.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
PeglegJones said:
So the previously stated 200 yard visibilty was a pipe dream...as I suspected.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you can get 200 yards in low light, but not sure why you would want to. Any shotgun would be a poor choice at that distance, and the Shockwave even poorer. In addition, if you aligned the laser to point-of-impact at 200 yards it would likely be a clean miss at shotgun combat distances.
 
MAINSAIL said:
I'm sure you can get 200 yards in low light, but not sure why you would want to. Any shotgun would be a poor choice at that distance, and the Shockwave even poorer. In addition, if you aligned the laser to point-of-impact at 200 yards it would likely be a clean miss at shotgun combat distances.
Click to expand...
Agree. The original discussion was oriented to use on SW and good daylight visibility to 25 yards, primarily using slugs at that range.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
I bought a laser to aid in aiming. I am over 70 and find it difficult to hold the shockwave high enough to use the sight radius and front sight bead.
 
PeglegJones....

Laser during bright daylight and 25-yards. Let me know how that goes please when you find the right one. I am super interested. Thanks.
 
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