But back to the subject of pistol cal weapons, most were issued in full auto form primarily to tank crews and close support troops and the likes. For their roles, they did very well.
Short rifles weren't that available then
I can see some uses but I don't see what it can do that only it has to offer
There are no perfect guns. That's why we have choices. I'll never claim that a subgun is a perfect gun, any more than I will ever claim that a rifle caliber or anything else is a perfect platform for everything either.
Agreed, however there are a lot that are a lot closer than others
The only worthwhile thing I see about them is suppression
They do excel at suppression. Or relatively speaking in some circumstances at least if you have a subsonic load.
That comes in very handy when you are not wanting to let everyone in your general vicinity know your business.
Meh
now that I have put a couple rounds through my Rifle cartage pistol I just see no advantage other than suppression and in reality that saves on hearing protection.....in a straight gun fight no one cares, if your a sniper or assassin than yeah.....
I'm not an assassin, nor a sniper, but statistically, most gunfights are going to be over relatively quickly.
And putting rounds on target is important no matter what you're using. Whether that's 9mm, 45 ACP, or 223 or 308 or whatever you are firing. If you're not hitting anything, it doesn't matter if you're shooting a bazooka or a slingshot.
I will say that I do not feel out gunned when I have my submachine in hand. In all honesty, I prefer mine for that role and I wouldn't recommend anyone to break into my house and try to prove otherwise.
Not following the relation , all that goes with all guns
I want to hear more PRO from owners, here are my cons from a non owner
1. Power, all combat handgun rounds are anemic compared to even small long gun cartridges. energy, velocity, range, accuracy, penetration, ammo selection all go to rifle rounds
Correct that handgun calibers are usually going to have less energy/velocity and range.
Always not usually
But handgun calibers were never meant for (long) range, but if you're going to compare them to a handgun, I can shoulder a long gun and shoot more accurately and at farther distance, and with increased power if you're going to compare apples to a handgun.
Exactly, so now that sbr is more prevalent than ever , it makes even less since, same package....more powerful round seems a no brainer
Just because they shoot a handgun bullet, does not mean they're essentially the same thing.
John, they are not the same but they are essentially the same. Length , weight, operation, feeding, cycling all make them essentially the same
I compare the two platforms because they are essentially the same, the cartridge is where they differ the most
Would you want someone to shoot you with a 9mm? Or a string of them?
Hell no, but I would be more comfortable because #1 in conflict is create distance, cover......it's the part about a trained adversary creating distance that hurts the pistol cartridges cause. With a short rifle your better off in still being terminal as distance expands.
Would you want someone to shoot you with a 45ACP?
God no
Fact is, I bet you don't. And is exactly why pistol caliber carbines or subguns have hung a lot of tags on a lot of toes regardless of what you're firing them out of.
No doubt, lot of ways to die
2. Length, taking a weak round away from a compact unit(handgun) and transferring it to a longer unwieldy
package compared to a handgun
A handgun is great for compactness not power, a long gun is great for power not compactness
why would a person want to take the weakest traits from each platform and put them together ?
I suppose that unwieldy would need to be defined in this instance. A shotgun is even longer than a rifle, and I know many people who use shotguns for HD id close quarters just fine.
Official definition : the handling of a long gun is unwieldy compared to the pistol for which the cartridge is meant for
If you get hung up on numbers, it sounds bad on paper, but in life, what's the difference in maneuverability in carrying an M4 down your hallway than carrying a 16 inch barreled uzi?
The answer may surprise you. Here are a few guns (none NFA) for size comparison. As you can see, the semi auto uzi is the most compact of the lot of them. And if you want to me to get more pictures in their usually true SBR (short) form, they are even more compact.
Ok, going by the pic the Uzi is only slightly shorter than your ar, weighs more and is less powerful, is that an accurate statement ?
3. Weight, again taking bad traits and putting them together. I haven't met a pistol cartridge long gun that has weighed less than a good no frills AR, Mini, M1 Carbine
It all depends. Some are heavier than others. Anything originally designed to fire from a big open bolt is going to be heavy. Mac's, Uzi's, and the likes are heavier than stens and MP5's, which my MP5K sbr may weigh 5-6 pounds loaded with a 40 round magazine (if that much). Again, it's hard to put everything in the same basket because there are so many different designs and styles.
I don't want to say that all 308 rifles weigh a lot because that's not exactly how things are in life.
That makes total since, 6 lbs with 40 rounds, this is the stuff I am fishing for.
4. Capacity, not the mag but the person. Most pistol rounds of any substance weighs more and takes up more room in sq/in than 556, a medium rifle round.
That's just logistics. Most pistol cal mags are longer, but skinnier and less than half the width of an AR mag.
JUST logistics !?.....dude, wars are won on logistics
Here are 4 magazines for an honest to goodness comparison.
uzi 32 round magazine 115 gr steel cased ammunition 19.8 ounces
Suomi 36 round magazines 147 gr ammunition 26.3 ounces
AR15 Colts magazine loaded with M855 ammunition 17.3 ounces
AK47 Euro surplus magazine loaded with 124 gr steel case ammo 29.2 ounces
What I was getting at is pound for pound , power, versatility you simply get more bang per inch/lbs
5. Cost.....they aren't cheaper, the rounds aren't cheaper and in a lot of instances are a bit more expensive than a good medium rifle cartridge
Where does one of these outshine a SBR ?.....
I guess bueaty and need and want is in the eye of the beholder. But I don't feel outgunned with either pistol cal or rifle caliber for HD purposes, and to be perfectly honest, I will often grab a pistol cal during tornado warnings and the likes when I head to the basement/shelter.
yeah, that's why I have a red truck
For HD I don't grab a long gun at all, my end all be all go to HD weapon is a 9mm pistol with a light on it
I think along the lines of what these long guns were created for, warfare, end of days, SHTF a......whatever you like to call it
I want to leave you with this one simple no explanation needed question
SHTF, you have the Uzi and 500 rounds and your lil AR 500 rounds. You don't know when you are going to see home again and you can only take what you can carry on your back.....what do you grab ?
thanks dude, I can always count on you for a good conversation
On a side note mom walked about 25 feet today without the walker, woohoo