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AR15 springs

John A.

John A.

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Springs.

One of the most over-looked or possibly over-debated parts in an AR.

I've fired an AR15 a time or two in my day and I must say that I've never had a problem with a set of gas rings my AR's. I simply haven't. Even when I have intentionally (mis)aligned the gas rings up trying to "create" a problem, I've never seen a problem that I could directly relate solely to them.

But I have heard of a few folks that say they have.

So, I figured what the hey hey. I would buy a continuous 1 piece ring instead of stacking 3 individual rings. What's it gonna hurt?

Turns out, it didn't hurt nothing.

But didn't really accomplish nothing either.

Just like I thought. But on a gun that I may have to rely on, it's not going to hurt.

In other news, I have replaced several buffer springs on a few guns in my collection with flat coil chrome silicone springs. I have used them before and they're a whole lot of awesome. And this time was no different.

But I am trying a new spring though that I've never tried. A Tubbs/Superior Shooting Chrome silicone ejector and extractor spring.

I have been so content with their buffer springs over the years, I wanted to get a few sets mainly to see if they really do have a 500,000 cycle life span as they claim.

Not that I'll ever reach that point on my own because I couldn't afford that, but I will at least notice if I start having failures sometime between now and the time I kick the bucket. And I'm putting at least one set of them in the SBR AR bolt, which are known to be a bit more punishing on parts since I'm going to be replacing the extractor on it anyway. After 7 years and I really don't know how many rounds it has sent out, it's due for a new extractor and set of rings anyway.

That gun got a new barrel about 2 years ago and I retired the old barrel to the dedicated suppressed 22 upper and the SBR is also now wearing an Ares Armor reduced friction nitride bolt after Oli pointed me to them.

I'm telling you guys, with the flat coil buffer spring and the Ares bolt, it's one smooth running little machine. It doesn't even feel like the same gun anymore.
 
Sounds like a good upgrade strategy John...

Got links on where to buy the aforementioned products...?
 
Sure.

The new extractor is a dpms. It should be pretty easy to find about anywhwere.

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The 1 piece gas ring
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part.../ar15-308ar-enhanced-gas-rings-prod68370.aspx

"After testing numerous minute grind callouts, the final JP Enhanced Gas Rings spec is the perfect balance of a solid gas seal with a very low-friction relationship between rings and bolt carrier. Reducing the resistance between these components directly results in an overall increase in the rifle's reliability while the rings utilize the cycling action itself to scrape the walls of the carrier, helping shed fowling with every shot."
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Tubbs extractor and ejector spring set
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...5-extractor-ejector-spring-set-prod24950.aspx

"Replacement, drop-in fit chrome silicon extractor and ejector springs from David Tubb provide long term durability and up to 80% more power than factory springs in AR-15 rifles. Precision manufacturing and high quality steel give extremely consistent compression cycle for smooth operation over thousands of rounds."

Engineered expressly to cure extraction problems, our CS extractor spring provides approximately 80-percent greater power than the stock spring. Do not use this extractor spring with any of the available "D-ring" inserts! They will not work together, and no such gimmicks are needed. This part will promote positive extraction under any shooting conditions.
The ejector spring is also more efficient than stock and resists breakdown and failure for the life of the rifle. Both these springs are unaffected by heat up to 750° F and should provide a lifetime of correct, efficient service for the most demanding applications.
These Tubb Precision Chrome Silicon Springs are made from the highest quality Chrome Silicon alloy. Ours are the only firearms springs constructed from this superior material and held to rigid industry 9002 Quality Control Standards. Along with the use of certified materials, this combination yields the highest quality, most consistent, and best performing springs available.
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Tubbs Flat Coil Chrome Silicone buffer spring
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...yle-308-chrome-silicon-springs-prod22336.aspx

"These flat wire, high-quality action/buffer springs from champion shooter David Tubb will perform flawlessly and are duty rated for 500,000 compression cycles at maximum performance. Made to “extra power” specs without the extra material, these springs are surprisingly lightweight, yet exttremely durable. Gives correct timing and resistance on the recoil stroke and a controlled rebound ensures reliable feeding with consistent forward thrust on every shot. Keeps the bolt locked a little longer to allow pressures more time to subside for perfect cycling."
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Ares reduced friction bolt carrier group
http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/blk_nitride_bcg_reduced_friction

"Our new Reduced Friction Black Nitride BCG utilizes strategically located bearing surfaces to reduce carrier contact and friction. By adding in machined lubrication channels and surfaces in addition to the minimal bearing surfaces, reliability is increased immensely.
A slight increase in weight also ensures proper dwell time and extraction. A case hardened 8620 steel carrier with an advanced low friction Black Nitride coating is the base for this BCG.
We used a fully machine 4130 steel gas key instead of a MIM key like a majority of manufacturers, and then used grade 8 hardware with proper staking to attach it the a machined channel for proper locating and zero chance of movement. A case hardened 4340 cam pin holds in the shot peened, case hardened 9310, and Black Nitride coated bolt.
The bolt is Mil-STD-1816 HPT and MPI tested and includes a crane O-ring on the shot peened case hardened 4340 steel Black Nitride coated extractor. A milspec firing pin made from centerless ground 8740 steel that is hard chrome coated, takes care of the primer ignition.
Every single piece of this BCG went through a level of scrutiny that is rarely given in order to bring you the best BCG out there. Proudly made in the USA."
 
I'm doing at least the recoil spring in my long gun.....although I am leery on messing with it because it works perfect now. not worried about design or material just the extra weight

the only problem I had with my long gun was from a worn out extractor spring....panicked for a minute till I figured it out. That bolt didn't come with the o-ring

My recoil spring in that rifle has a ton of rounds on it though

Have you seen a recoil spring wear out ?.....does it just start cycling really hard or does it cause malfunction ?
 
I have never worn out a buffer spring, but off the top of my head, I have changed two out of guns that were made in the late 70's/early 80's when I had my shop. They were not my guns, so I really don't know about round counts in them.

When I got them, they had hard (early) extraction messing up the rims on the cases and they were sooty and the receiver was a lot more fouled than it should be, felt like the buffers were bottoming out hard in the tube, feeding failures. They just don't work right.

I don't think any of the new springs are really going to change the weight of your gun.

As for the extractor O ring and X ring inserts, those have only been around maybe 10 years or so.
 
my last two bolts came with the O ring and the seem to be way stiffer when you thumb it to remove the pin. the one I had without worked a lot easier but it sure wore out

well that's good about the weight , the Wolff Xtra power in the pistol was way notably stouter when I first charged it....its quite a bit heavier than the carbine and rifle springs I have , if I had that one in the rifle I would be surprised if it cycled all ammo, so far the pistol still cycles weak rounds, although I have tried any steel case, pretty much the softest ammo I have shot to date, followed by AE....,Remington.....my weakest rounds are still hotter than all those. I need a couple rounds of wolf just to see if it cycles
 
I think the ares bolt has an o ring. I haven't shot it enough to take it apart to scrub yet to see if it does or not, but I think the item description said it did.

I don't have any other bolts that have them for sure. And why I wanted the tubbs springs. Just 1 less thing to have to deal with or worry about. If they really last for 100,000 cycles each set or however many hundreds of thousands they claim, it'll be past time for a lot of other parts by then anyway.

I likely won't ever see 100,000 rounds individually through any of my AR's.

I've been shooting most of my life and probably have got to the 20,000 or 25,000 mark if you combine everything. Shotgun, pistol, and rifle.

If you're flipping the ammo bill yourself, and not shooting uncle sams toys on one of his vacations to far away lands, that's still a lot of trigger squeezes.

edit:
I missed the part about the wolf ammo.

The tubbs flat coil chrome silicone buffer spring cycled the wolf through my SBR and all was well.

In the lightweight coyote popper, it cycled, but didn't lock the bolt back in it sometimes.

As for dry weight, the tubbs is heavier, but not enough to make the gun feel different or heavier. I doubt you'd notice.
 
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Yeah the Aries actually run the genuine CANE O-ring

oh , I don't even come close to worrying about actual physical weight of a spring.....when I talk spring, whether a gun, a dirt bike suspension or whatever I'm referring to the rate.... spring rate weight

The rate on the Wolff XP has translated to the heaviest pull on the charge I've felt on AR.....would even know what it physically weighs , probably more than normal but couldn't imagine its enough to notice

now the H3 buffer I created , I can feel the weight it added to the butt.

But because these little barrels are actually heavy for their size it balanced the gun out perfect .
 
I agree.

My 10.5" barrel is heavy under the handguards. Almost bull barrel'ish.
 
....cant do it .

been really reading a ton of individual review between all the places that sell them.
Most people seem happy with them....most those people have carbines, possibly over gased

out of the unhappy people, more than I thought there would be, 99% of them were using a rifle gas....most had rifle buffer/tube.

Most complaints were results of the spring being to heavy as the malfunction list they were providing suggest short stroke.

the others complained that the only reason they bought the spring was to rid sproing.....they came back saying the spring was either the same or louder

there are actually quite a few individual feedback reviews on them

So since the Wolff took care of my pistol I don't need anything there, runs perfect lot less jumpy,still jumpy but way more manageable can now just flat out get on it and it has no sproing at all, never noticed it with the standard either....probably that big chunk of rubber brace dampening effect or something.... like limb savers on bows

I stepped back and realized the rifle really needs nothing as well.
Yesterday I had it out and for the first time in a while I took off the bipod and shot fast at multiple targets and man oh man I forgot what a Cadillac that rifle is .....
I mean if sounded like a 22 mag you would think it was one.
Between the Lantac, and what seems to be a spot on gas port diameter , rifle gas port location, rifle buffer the thing hardly moves so I bet a spring would do nothing for staying on target like it did my pistol
That Ace Skeleton doesn't suffer from sproing
The rifle has cycled every ammo under the sun and locked back, ejection pattern is textbook.
I really think it would be a candidate for short stroking on a heavier spring

So really what I would truly net would be a spring life that's unrivaled anywhere.....as much as I like that, I really just need to not be fixing what aint broke, hard for me but I'll wait see if anything actually wears out as I feel I have both configurations dialed in really well at this point
 
You're right. If the Lantac barrel is tuned that good as it sits, then changing the buffer spring would likely accomplish little to nothing.

But the sbr, does run smoother with the new spring. No doubt there at all. Now it's more of a push against my shoulder rather than a little flip.

The coyote popper seemed to be a little smoother too with the new buffer spring, but like I said, occasionally didn't lock the bolt back. Perhaps that was partly due to the inconsistent wolf we were shooting, or kissing right at gas capacity, I dunno.

I didn't have any other cheap ammo up there with me when we were shooting to see if it was just weaker ammo, so I just put the other spring back in. At least that way, it locked the bolt back all the time like it's supposed to.
 
John A. said:
You're right. If the Lantac barrel is tuned that good as it sits, then changing the buffer spring would likely accomplish little to nothing.

But the sbr, does run smoother with the new spring. No doubt there at all. Now it's more of a push against my shoulder rather than a little flip.

The coyote popper seemed to be a little smoother too with the new buffer spring, but like I said, occasionally didn't lock the bolt back. Perhaps that was partly due to the inconsistent wolf we were shooting, or kissing right at gas capacity, I dunno.

I didn't have any other cheap ammo up there with me when we were shooting to see if it was just weaker ammo, so I just put the other spring back in. At least that way, it locked the bolt back all the time like it's supposed to.
Click to expand...
Again if we lived in ear shot we would figure out all kinds of cool stuff....and I would ask to borrow your spring for a day
 
Yeah, it'd be like 2 mad scientists working on a franken AR
ItsAlive.jpg
 
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