Barry’s Bullets
- Thread starter oli700
- Start date
Yep, done up lots of them. Load with the book spec taper crimp and push 'em under 1200-fps and they are superb. The hollow base helps them to obturate to the bore, and they can be extremely accurate. Ten years ago Berrys Bullets were really cheap but now I find them to cost almost as much as actual jacketed bullets. Just don't use a Lee Factory Crimp Die as it "may" cause them to become undersized for the bore dimensions of your gun.
These might be for your CZ, right?
These might be for your CZ, right?
My man! Yes for the CZ and I got 500 of them. I can’t believe the tight tolerance of that CZ chamber. I have been doing a ton of research on reloading for the CZ, the only other gun with a super tight tolerance is an XDm. Apparently it is more accurate and in Eastern Europe that still means something . Unfortunately reloading for such a short OAL is challenging me. I just worked out the OAL for my CZ with the flat tip HBFT 124g….1.060”.Round nose flat base like to be 1.090” using the “push test”. I am trying to use some HS-6 I don’t want to use for shotshell. The front of the bottle has a recipe for 9mm. 6.8g for a 124 fmj. I figure I’ll make some at 6.0g for the plated….what do you think or suggest please and thank you lol
Well we had some prior reloads that fed fine in a S&W two Rugers and a Taurus. I put one in the chamber of the CZ and it would not chamber the round fully. I looked at my friend and said something is wrong he dropped it in his XDm and it got stuck in the chamber. That begun my research on the subject and found a load of info over on originalczforum. There is some extremely good CZ specific reloading info there. And it sounds like it applies to the XDm as well so that’s a bonus because we are reloading for those two. The others sit around with mag full of HP’s collecting dust.
Here is a post that one of the CZ guru’s by the name of Wobbly posted up that helped me visualizes it.
I'll put up his entire post as its interesting and all the basics he talks about applies to 9mm as well as 45 in CZ/XDm chambers
From The Origional CZ Forum .com
[quote author=Wobbly link=topic=34225.msg189303#msg189303 date=1287337576]
Mr Kern -
• To start with, you've got to realize that each auto-pistol maker makes their barrel and chamber slightly different from everyone else. That affects ammo feeding, types of ammo, etc that the gun can shoot.... and to a great deal the accuracy that results from shooting said ammo. All these barrels meet SAAMI specs and most all are radically different. The following diagram will explain...
• Secondly, when bullet makers tell us, use XYZ length as an OAL what they are saying is, "This is what we used and the results we got." They are NOT saying this is the "perfect OAL", or that their OAL will work in every gun, or that they think this is some kind of "perfect", never-fail, always-feed-correctly dimension. Far from it. If you'll read your manual you'll discover that this ammo testing takes place in "test barrels". This is, a huge block of steel, bolted to a table top, with all sorts of meters and gauges hanging off of it. It is a "gun", but it is NOT a pistol, and it is MOST DEFINITELY not auto loading. It's a single shot hunk of steel.
So if anyone who thinks that the Hornady, or Speer, or Hodgdon manual is suggesting that you use a certain OAL because it will feed well in your pistol is way, way off base. Right field to be exact.
They never said that. They only said "It worked for us, now go make it work for you."
• Now certainly, those manual writers chose an OAL that will fit "popular pistols" and work out good for a lot of people. The problem is, they didn't tell us which popular pistol they chose. The second problem is, the most popular pistol out there has such huge dimensions on their chambers that you can almost shoot 50 BMG in their 9mm model. ;D
• At the opposite end of the spectrum is the CZ and Springfield XD models. These are made in eastern Europe where they still respect fine pistols and craftsmanship. One of the ways CZ achieves such incredible accuracy is by shortening the "freebore"; that part of the bore in front of the chamber that has no rifling. This section is also known as the "leade". This is not usually an issue with RN bullets, and generally everyone is happy.
However when we use a bullet like the Hornady XTP that brings the major diameter well out in front of the cartridge case mouth, this diameter can stick out far enough to strike the rifling. That is, the short freebore means we have to use a shorter OAL than most reloading manuals show. This because most reloading manuals are NOT written with the CZ and the XD series in mind. Follow? Luckily for us, as per above, there is nothing "sacred" about OAL on an auto cartridge and we can remedy this.
• So when you start this adventure of "what OAL should I use", I can only say that it's a bit like driving. That is, if you stay between the lines, then you'll be fairly safe. So where are the lines? One line is the MAXIMUM safe OAL is (as discussed in the post above) can be arrived at with the telescoping test cartridge.
The other line is the MINIMUM safe OAL which is a function of cartridge handling. Just like transporting a baby, someone has to have the baby at all times. In a pistol, that means the round either has to be a) under the magazine lips, b) in the chamber, or c) partially supported by both (that is, in transport). This is so that when you go "gangsta" on us and turn the gun sideways, it will still operate. I think you can get a fairly good idea of this dimension by using the wood off a kitchen match. Just shorten it until its barely under the magazine feed lips and minimally into the chamber.
"Longer is Gooder" In reality though, what we are going to do is simply start with the MAX safe OAL. In a lot of instances the MAX safe OAL will work just fine, but to iron out feeding issues it may be necessary to shorten the round in .010" increments. However, that's not something we want to do unless we have to. It's a trick we keep in our back pocket, "just in case".
• So we have our OAL picked out, the next thing we need is a powder load to match that OAL. In a handgun the one thing we're fighting is chamber pressure. We definitely want to keep it in the safe range. Two main things make up chamber pressure: volume under the bullet (a function of OAL), and amount of powder. For the same bullet speed with the same bullet speed, the rule is: as the OAL gets shorter we reduce the powder. This handy chart shows generally what's going on....
• We always want to start with a published load. ALWAYS. Every load you fire should be based on something published. There are too many authoritative sources available through the internet to use a load from an "internet buddy". This is why reloaders generally build a library, to have numerous published sources they can depend upon.
• So let's say our chosen OAL is 1.247" for a 190gr jacketed bullet and we find a load on-line at the Hodgdon web site with an OAL of 1.235" for a 190gr jacketed bullet. We can use it because the bullet construction and the bullet weights match. We can also use the load because they are recommending a shorter OAL. If we use the shorter load but stay at the longer length, then our pressure will be lower. That's right from the chart. Follow? You can always go for a longer OAL (within reason) on a published load; never shorter without reducing the powder.
My personal preference would be to load at 1.240". In that way a) my pressure is a tad lower, b) my bullet is .007" further from the rifling, and c) 1.240" is a number that's much easier to read on a caliper. That's killing 3 files with one swat, so to speak. In actuality, it's being smart and thinking safe. You want to always err toward safety.
• So what happens if the shortest publish load you can find is not short enough? For very small changes in OAL, say .015", you can proportion the load. This will call for some 6th grade Algegra, which if you are not up to it can lead to a very big mistake. I think it best to take those on a case-by-case basis. In other words, we'll cross that bridge IF we get there. ;D
• Then comes the 5 rounds starting at the lowest possible load. Depending on the load spread, you might want to work your way upward in 0.1gr or 0.2gr increments. This is all the usual stuff you would do with any load.
• AND AS ALWAYS... you are making notes in your reloading notebook so you can come back to this load, know where you got the load, how it shoots, etc, etc should you be lucky enough to go on vacation for 2 weeks. So write it down! As the saying goes, "There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are no old-bold reloaders."
Hope this helps!
[/quote]
NiteSite....what do you think ?
Here is a post that one of the CZ guru’s by the name of Wobbly posted up that helped me visualizes it.
I'll put up his entire post as its interesting and all the basics he talks about applies to 9mm as well as 45 in CZ/XDm chambers
From The Origional CZ Forum .com
[quote author=Wobbly link=topic=34225.msg189303#msg189303 date=1287337576]
Mr Kern -
• To start with, you've got to realize that each auto-pistol maker makes their barrel and chamber slightly different from everyone else. That affects ammo feeding, types of ammo, etc that the gun can shoot.... and to a great deal the accuracy that results from shooting said ammo. All these barrels meet SAAMI specs and most all are radically different. The following diagram will explain...
• Secondly, when bullet makers tell us, use XYZ length as an OAL what they are saying is, "This is what we used and the results we got." They are NOT saying this is the "perfect OAL", or that their OAL will work in every gun, or that they think this is some kind of "perfect", never-fail, always-feed-correctly dimension. Far from it. If you'll read your manual you'll discover that this ammo testing takes place in "test barrels". This is, a huge block of steel, bolted to a table top, with all sorts of meters and gauges hanging off of it. It is a "gun", but it is NOT a pistol, and it is MOST DEFINITELY not auto loading. It's a single shot hunk of steel.
So if anyone who thinks that the Hornady, or Speer, or Hodgdon manual is suggesting that you use a certain OAL because it will feed well in your pistol is way, way off base. Right field to be exact.
They never said that. They only said "It worked for us, now go make it work for you."• Now certainly, those manual writers chose an OAL that will fit "popular pistols" and work out good for a lot of people. The problem is, they didn't tell us which popular pistol they chose. The second problem is, the most popular pistol out there has such huge dimensions on their chambers that you can almost shoot 50 BMG in their 9mm model. ;D
• At the opposite end of the spectrum is the CZ and Springfield XD models. These are made in eastern Europe where they still respect fine pistols and craftsmanship. One of the ways CZ achieves such incredible accuracy is by shortening the "freebore"; that part of the bore in front of the chamber that has no rifling. This section is also known as the "leade". This is not usually an issue with RN bullets, and generally everyone is happy.
However when we use a bullet like the Hornady XTP that brings the major diameter well out in front of the cartridge case mouth, this diameter can stick out far enough to strike the rifling. That is, the short freebore means we have to use a shorter OAL than most reloading manuals show. This because most reloading manuals are NOT written with the CZ and the XD series in mind. Follow? Luckily for us, as per above, there is nothing "sacred" about OAL on an auto cartridge and we can remedy this.
• So when you start this adventure of "what OAL should I use", I can only say that it's a bit like driving. That is, if you stay between the lines, then you'll be fairly safe. So where are the lines? One line is the MAXIMUM safe OAL is (as discussed in the post above) can be arrived at with the telescoping test cartridge.
The other line is the MINIMUM safe OAL which is a function of cartridge handling. Just like transporting a baby, someone has to have the baby at all times. In a pistol, that means the round either has to be a) under the magazine lips, b) in the chamber, or c) partially supported by both (that is, in transport). This is so that when you go "gangsta" on us and turn the gun sideways, it will still operate. I think you can get a fairly good idea of this dimension by using the wood off a kitchen match. Just shorten it until its barely under the magazine feed lips and minimally into the chamber.
"Longer is Gooder" In reality though, what we are going to do is simply start with the MAX safe OAL. In a lot of instances the MAX safe OAL will work just fine, but to iron out feeding issues it may be necessary to shorten the round in .010" increments. However, that's not something we want to do unless we have to. It's a trick we keep in our back pocket, "just in case".
• So we have our OAL picked out, the next thing we need is a powder load to match that OAL. In a handgun the one thing we're fighting is chamber pressure. We definitely want to keep it in the safe range. Two main things make up chamber pressure: volume under the bullet (a function of OAL), and amount of powder. For the same bullet speed with the same bullet speed, the rule is: as the OAL gets shorter we reduce the powder. This handy chart shows generally what's going on....
• We always want to start with a published load. ALWAYS. Every load you fire should be based on something published. There are too many authoritative sources available through the internet to use a load from an "internet buddy". This is why reloaders generally build a library, to have numerous published sources they can depend upon.
• So let's say our chosen OAL is 1.247" for a 190gr jacketed bullet and we find a load on-line at the Hodgdon web site with an OAL of 1.235" for a 190gr jacketed bullet. We can use it because the bullet construction and the bullet weights match. We can also use the load because they are recommending a shorter OAL. If we use the shorter load but stay at the longer length, then our pressure will be lower. That's right from the chart. Follow? You can always go for a longer OAL (within reason) on a published load; never shorter without reducing the powder.
My personal preference would be to load at 1.240". In that way a) my pressure is a tad lower, b) my bullet is .007" further from the rifling, and c) 1.240" is a number that's much easier to read on a caliper. That's killing 3 files with one swat, so to speak. In actuality, it's being smart and thinking safe. You want to always err toward safety.
• So what happens if the shortest publish load you can find is not short enough? For very small changes in OAL, say .015", you can proportion the load. This will call for some 6th grade Algegra, which if you are not up to it can lead to a very big mistake. I think it best to take those on a case-by-case basis. In other words, we'll cross that bridge IF we get there. ;D
• Then comes the 5 rounds starting at the lowest possible load. Depending on the load spread, you might want to work your way upward in 0.1gr or 0.2gr increments. This is all the usual stuff you would do with any load.
• AND AS ALWAYS... you are making notes in your reloading notebook so you can come back to this load, know where you got the load, how it shoots, etc, etc should you be lucky enough to go on vacation for 2 weeks. So write it down! As the saying goes, "There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are no old-bold reloaders."
Hope this helps!
[/quote]
NiteSite....what do you think ?
BTW, I got a chance to shoot 2 mags full of these yesterday and they shoot great. I am getting to the point where I can take the bull right out at 10 yards off hand, then I get fliers because I want to shoot too fast........can’t.....slow.....down. When I do the CZ just shines. I don’t have target pics, sorry. The last three shot I tried for the tack that I had holding the paper.....on the second shot I got it......the last shot I pulled up and shot at a big rock,30"x30" that I paced out to be 37 yards football style, and hit it square in the middle. Don’t laugh, that’s real good pistol shooting for me . I love this gun, just puts a huge smile on my face
Barry's Hollow Base Flat Tip 124 Grain, 6 grains of HS6, 1.060" OAL custom fit to my CZ chamber
Barry's Hollow Base Flat Tip 124 Grain, 6 grains of HS6, 1.060" OAL custom fit to my CZ chamber
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
WOW...that's a post !!
I'll be reading this thread with interest...
I'll be reading this thread with interest...