• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

First AR Build (for myself that is)

The "grey" area is where they have prosecuted people for "intent" concerning raw parts.

That has happened. Several high publicity cases too.

Just to name one, http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-472404.html

@dieselmudder If a barrel is pinned AND welded or silver soldered (brazed), and reaches an overall length of 16 inches, it is considered a 16 inch barrel, and therefore, no tax stamp required. If the muzzle attachment is permanently affixed, it counts as part of the barrel length.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.
 
oh I see, so I was on the right path but there is some risk if they can prove intent.

yeah overall length includes a muzzle device if its permanently attached in the ways described by John. Also, this has come up before and I was given confirmation that the ATF barrel length is taken by sending the bolt into battery on an empty chamber then a rod is run down the barrel to the bolt face and measures where it meets the muzzle/permanently attached muzzle device.
 
Intent is a fluid concept.

With a bunch of parts that when assembled make a complete rifle then yes, it's a pretty safe call that one intends to do so. However if one were to start with a stripped lower receiver and configure it with a pistol buffer tube, then even with a 10.5" barrel all indications show that the intent is to assemble a pistol which is in full accordance with the law. Owning an AR-15 pistol while also owning an AR-15 carbine/rifle is perfectly legal even though the owner has the ability to swap uppers at any time. Where one would run into issues would be having "extra" sub-16" complete uppers or even barrels laying around with complete rifles, stripped lower receivers, and no pistol lower...
 
ok, we have a small delay. the gunsmith i'm using is only open when i'm at work so i had my gf's dad drop it off for me. the gunsmith never even opened the box, had him come pick it up saying he couldn't pin the brake on until i put the gas block and barrel nut on to assemble it later... of course he didn't bother to look and see that i already had the barrel nut taped in place and the gas block set screwed in place. ugh. hopefully i'll have a real build update for everyone next week.
 
Good luck.

I hope dude gets his $#!+ together so you can get back on track...

yeah tell me about it. my gf's dad is going to bring everything back to me so i can assemble the upper and then the gunsmith said he can pin it once it's at that stage. i assumed he'd have vise jaws to hold the barrel and could time it off of the gas port or key in the back of the barrel but he claims he needs it assembled to time it off the gas block and tube installed... if i had a drill press and tig i'd just do it myself but i guess i have to do whatever makes this guy happy.
 
alright, my buddy was out in the shop when i got off my shift so i ran over there and assembled most of the upper. i had to get it back to my gf's dad who works 3rd shift so forgive a lack of pictures compared to the lower but I do have a few more for you guys!

clamp your upper receiver in your vise block (cheap no name one from ebay works great), the insert your barrel into the receiver noting the orientation of the key on the barrel and corresponding notch in the receiver. gentle use of rubber mallet may be required.
ze3e3ejy.jpg


uqenymun.jpg


most of the following is for my bcm kmr rail that uses a proprietary barrel nut, reference your hardware's manufacturer for installation differences.

i used a little frog lube on the threads and slid the barrel but over the barrel down to the receiver and thread on hand tight.
7a2u7uge.jpg


torque spec is 40-50ft/lbs so i just ran down the middle at 45.
ypy3y8ej.jpg


using the supplied 1/2" drive wrench (same pattern as your buffer tube castle nut wrench) torque the barrel nut on then using a breaker bar loosen again until you've torqued the nut to 40-50ft/lbs at least 3-4 times to ensure proper torque is met.
mahygemy.jpg


Now with your barrel nut on, slide your gas block on (in this instance a bcm low profile .625")
he4a9edy.jpg


apply loctite to the set screw threads and install. if you use a bcm or other set screw intended barrel and a set screw gas block instead of a taper pin setup you should have at least one dimple machined into the barrel or some people find hardware comes loose. bcm is nice enough to dimple their barrels for one set screw, we'll see if the 2nd screw comes loose over time.
ahu9a5uh.jpg


with the gas port and roll pin hole oriented toward the gas block, slide your gas tube into the receiver then back into the gas block.
aba6upa7.jpg


line up the holes in the gas tube and block and insert your roll pin. don't worry this one usually goes in much easier than the stubborn ones on a build but an extra set of hands to hold the upper still helps.
NOTE: if you don't insert the tube all the way it can look like its lined up and when you send the bcg into battery the gas key can become stuck in the gas tube and you won't be able to get the bolt to lock into the barrel.
za6a8y7u.jpg


yguda6ad.jpg


now install your muzzle device with whatever the supplied hardware/washer is according to the manufacturer's instructions. There's nothing complicated about this one, just a lantac dragon with a simple crush washer.
a6y5a6y4.jpg


that's where my last minute continuation of this build ends for now. as of friday evening the upper is at the gunsmith having the brake pinned, so it's just a waiting game to hear from him that its ready for pick up. stay tuned for the post gunsmith results and bcm kmr install!
 
i'm going to lose it... just received an email from the gunsmith, apparently he can't do the job since none of his drill bits will get through the hardened milspec steel the brake is made of. he also already timed the brake so i will need a new crush washer. what?! are you serious? why the F did you time the brake on if you couldn't drill it? and if you had done that first it makes no sense. the logical thing to do is drill the brake first off the barrel, time it, then drill the shallow hole in the barrel using the brake hole as a pilot! is it just me or do we have a problem when a consumer is telling the gunsmith how to properly do his job?

EDIT: anyone in the new england area probably knows of a big range in NH and their sister FFL. I'm not going to use any business or personal names but they said this guy is not one to deal with usually. He was an engineer at BAE and left because he thought he could do any and all gunsmithing but when i mentioned he didn't even have vise blocks to hold my barrel and made me pick up my parts, assemble the upper, then drop it back off they were adamant that i get everything back ASAP. hopefully my buddy with a modern blacksmith shop should be able to handle the job.
 
Last edited:
That sucks bro. I'm in the same boat. I don't want to have to send my barrel off somewhere to be pinned to a flash hider. I wanted to keep it local so I diligently researched every shop reasonably close to the area. Finally found one that appears I can trust and won't hose me either. Comparing examples of their work to some of the others its ridiculous what some folks charge for that service and what the customer winds up with. Everyone swears by a company called ADCO and if you have to wind up sending off to someone they seem to be your best bet for this type of service. I was about to do just that till I found out about the shop I'm utilizing from a guy I was chit chatting with at the range. I'm glad he suggested them.

BTW love the progress of your build. Mine seems like its taking me forever but its just been slowly budgeting the funds towards parts as I can afford them. I cheaped out and ordered the upper already assembled. I like that you are doing as much as you can on your own including assembling the upper as well. Hell it seems you would be adept enough if you had access to a drill press and a welding machine to just tackle this yourself. Good luck and hopefully it pans out for you soon. I know its killing you to be so close and yet so far from the completed goal.
 
jgwills, thanks i appreciate the support. the mechanical assembly is a breeze since i've done a bunch now. i do know how to tig from my motorsports work and my buddys garage where i help him build motorcycles does have a press i just originally figured i never did this specifically on a barrel before and for $40 i didn't want to screw around with it. now im at the point idgaf lol

my blacksmith buddy said he is double checking with his machinist what bit i should buy for the 4140 surface hardened steel the brake is made of and he has way more experience on the tig with fine work so i'll drill it there and he will take care of the weld.

getting a full upper isn't even that big of a difference from building one. if you can read and interpret instructions and know righty tighty you can do an upper. barrel, bcg, charging handle, and gas block just slide into place, forward assist, dust cover, barrel nut, set screws, and muzzle brake aren't anything a hammer, punch, wrench and beer can't handle. the lower is where most of the mechanical assembly work is so i give way more props to people who build their lower than upper.
 
I guess maybe one of these days I need to hunt down all the stuff needed for an upper and attempt one eventually. I've done three lowers. I find them easy and that they don't require any special tools to assemble them with. If I had access to a machine shop and tools I'd probably attempt the upper myself. The process doesn't look too complicated if you have all the right tools.

With the pin and weld application I'll let a licensed smith handle that. When your talking legal barrel length best to get it done right instead of tip toeing with winding up in jail and having a felony follow you the rest of your life.
 
Last edited:
I guess maybe one of these days I need to hunt down all the stuff needed for an upper and attempt one eventually. I've done three lowers. I find them easy and that they don't require any special tools to assemble them with. If I had access to a machine shop and tools I'd probably attempt the upper myself. The process doesn't look too complicated if you have all the right tools for the job.

like i said, if you can do a lower you can do an upper. just grab a torque wrench, breaker bar, and a set of cheap receiver blocks off ebay and you should be good with everything you already have for building a lower.

as for the pinning legality, I plan to not re-coat it. i figure if its bare to show the weld spot and you can't unscrew the brake then there shouldn't be an issue with the atf questioning it since pinning it is one of the methods they say is legal.
 
Honestly, assembling an upper isn't half as complicated as a lower.

The availability of mil-spec parts has taken a lot of the fine tuning out of the process and there's not much to it at all...
 
Honestly, assembling an upper isn't half as complicated as a lower.

The availability of mil-spec parts has taken a lot of the fine tuning out of the process and there's not much to it at all...

agreed. honestly it's probably as much work to assemble a bcg from parts as the whole upper.
 
I guess the next one is gonna be from scratch. In the back of my mind I keep saying I'd like to have a .300 blk so maybe I'll be bending your ears for advice when the time comes. Curious what do you guys think of the Wheeler AR tool kits?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/49...ng-delta-series-ar-15-armorers-essentials-kit

Even if you were not planning on assembling an upper from all loose components still might be worth picking up a tool set like that for basic maintaining or installing free float rails etc.......

If not the Wheeler any other suggestions for a good all around packaged kit of AR specific tools like that?

Sorry OP for the slight thread hijack.
 
Last edited:
I guess the next one is gonna be from scratch. In the back of my mind I keep saying I'd like to have a .300 blk so maybe I'll be bending your ears for advice when the time comes. Curious what do you guys think of the Wheeler AR tool kits?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/49...ng-delta-series-ar-15-armorers-essentials-kit

Even if you were not planning on assembling an upper from all loose components still might be worth picking up a tool set like that for basic maintaining or installing free float rails etc.......

Sorry OP for the slight thread hijack.

no worries! feel free to ask related questions while i wait to get my poor barrel back from this yahoo.

i like the idea of a tool kit but i cant afford one right now and more times than not i find that they include tools i either already have or just can't see myself needing. i want a set or roll pin starter punches though, i never thought they would be a big deal but i keep finding i wish i had them when i do builds or modify friends weapons.

.300 blk is an upper build i would love to do one of these days. honestly i will probably pay for a sbr stamp and just sit on an lower until it goes through and build it off of that. from what i've read you really just need a different barrel, gas block and tube for that barrel, and even though most people say a different buffer isn't necessary i would still play around with different buffer weights. other than that it should be the same as a 5.56 build.
 
The only "specialized" tools I've bought are an upper receiver vise block which came with the gas key alignment tool, an armorer's wrench, and a fsb/taper pin alignment block. Everything else can be picked up at your local hardware store for a fraction of the price compared to what the kits cost.

@AlwaysArmed ,

If you don't pick up a roll pin punch, a 3/32" nail punch is just about perfect for getting roll pins started. The concave surface helps keep the pin from deforming under pressure and force. The same size nail punch also works well as a taper pin punch for installing/removing those downright stubborn fsb/gas block taper pins. Picked mine up in a set of 3 different sized nail punches at Ace Hardware for about $4. Made a takedown/pivot pin installation tool out of a length of 1/4" wooden dowel with a hole drilled through it at one end. Works like a charm...
 
no worries! feel free to ask related questions while i wait to get my poor barrel back from this yahoo.

i like the idea of a tool kit but i cant afford one right now and more times than not i find that they include tools i either already have or just can't see myself needing. i want a set or roll pin starter punches though, i never thought they would be a big deal but i keep finding i wish i had them when i do builds or modify friends weapons.

.300 blk is an upper build i would love to do one of these days. honestly i will probably pay for a sbr stamp and just sit on an lower until it goes through and build it off of that. from what i've read you really just need a different barrel, gas block and tube for that barrel, and even though most people say a different buffer isn't necessary i would still play around with different buffer weights. other than that it should be the same as a 5.56 build.
I did a 300 BLK recently with a 14.5" barrel and pinned and welded the bird cage to get legal at 16". I was REALLY surprised just how hard the steel was on the flash hider. I had to get a short tungsten bit to keep from deflecting and it was hard all the way through - an inexpensive unit in case I ever do have to grind and remove it.

Anyhow, I drilled the cage - aligned it, used the hole as a pilot - drilled .095" into the threads fabricated the pin and took it to a local welder that I trust for a quick hit with his TIG. Here's the results. As the weld is on the bottom of the barrel I have note even touched it up. The pic is enhanced a bit to show the work:
300blackoutbarrelweld.jpg


...and the gun (1:8 twist, 3lb Timney trigger)

300blk0213chair-1.jpg
 
mingaa, thanks for sharing! that looks great. plus the relevance to the incompetence of this so called "gunsmith" i trusted. the bit needed to get through hardened 4140 (which most mil spec muzzle devices are made of) isn't something exotic. he should have had the bit and if he doesn't that's on him for not having a tool needed for a material that is so prevalent in the AR industry. hell i have that bit myself. he claims this is a service he does all the time and has had countless customers. almost all popular flash hiders and muzzle brakes i've looked at are as hard if not harder so the mystery is what products are his customers buying that this is a new issue to him?!

BUT apparently the way he sees it is this is my fault for not disclosing what the brake was made of before dropping it off to him... i've been professional and polite yet he's gotten very insulting and talks down to me in his emails so i'm done dealing with him and i will make sure no one who asks me makes the mistake of dealing with him. all of his recent correspondence has confirmed the negative reviews i've gotten about him from many other gunsmiths, stores, and ranges in new england.

bottom line is, avoid JR's Gunsmithing in Londonderry, NH.
 
Back
Top