Kit Talk...

[oli700]

Brad made the Tac picture thread and I don’t want to drown it out with chatter so lets talk about kits here.

Personally I feel I could get away with the OSOE Micro rig and a CamelBak as long as I had cargo pockets. I have not picked up anything but am curious on opinions.

I have not been in the military but have had to pack lots of weight and gear for wildfires. I know what it takes to live for about 2 weeks out of a 60 pound pack. This is not with guns and ammo.

So the way I see it if I had to go “Wolverines” I would have a base spot or two. I see no want or need to carry over 40 pounds of gear for guerrilla warfare…..unless I had to sustain myself out of my kit…..which the most important item would be socks. I have carried what we call piss bags for miles, 5 gallons of water for a fire we cant get hose to so everyone carries water, so that plus your tool, chain saw/fuel and line pack in the mountains. ….you don’t feel exactly spry to wage war when you get there.
I have looked at a lot of vests and packs. I feel I would settle on a chest rig, bdu, and my CamelBak Mule.
It would have to be versatile as well, not just for SG, but carbine too. ….or bolt action rifle depending on the mission for the day, I am not going to pack a SG and a rifle.

Any thoughts on kit set up and considerations of having to carry it for miles on end and then possibly having to do battle after or while all that stuff is strapped to your ass.?

I am not as fit as I used to be and I have some very fit kids working for me and we all get tired. I haven’t even considered bullet proof vests worth of weight either, probably take my chances without.

But anyway all this stuff ifs for fighting so we better talk about it as it is intended for battle. Now if your talking standing your ground and not maneuvering that’s another thing.

Everyone’s thoughts on this are appreciated as I haven’t bought anything yet.

http://originalsoegear.com/12gamicro.html
http://originalsoegear.com/microrig.html

 

[Rossignol]

I'll get to ammo right away and go from there.

As with anything, there are many talking points. For example, weight vs. volume. This is one of the reasons .223/5.56 has done so well. 30.06 is a great round providing accuracy over range and knock down power, but to carry it efficiently, you would maybe need to have an M1 carbine and stripper clips. So the next natural consideration to me that uses a standardized magazine is .308/7.62. There are micro rigs and chest rigs for both 223 and 308 in standard sized magazine configurations.

The Mini 30 may be a decent choice, but that is a shorter cartridge and possibly in short supply. Could suck if you carry one firearm.

The shotgun, while not as accurate over longer ranges and generally heavier than a carbine and ammo, provides more versatility and will operate with virtually load that can be found. With the option of "cut shells", nearly anything that matches the gauge you carry will provide defense as well as food. Again, the cost is more weight and less volume/supply.

You know how I feel about gear pulling double duty. If you were to look into body armor, perhaps a modular vest with plenty of MOLLE webbing. Otherwise, maybe the lighter weight vests that wont stop everything but offer some protection, say from a close range pistol, and a USGI fighting load carrier or LBV. I also like having a pistol close at hand like on the front of an LBV. A leg drop platform for me doesnt feel right, like I always have to reach too far down to draw. A good knife like the Gerber LMF II will also attach to a FLC or LBV and be within easy reach!

Sounds like you already know about carrying weight, and I'm certain you know its easier to carry what you can wear. Which brings me to BDU's. As you have mentioned; POCKETS! I love em! Excellent choice!

That Mule is a nice pack too!!! Also has MOLLE webbing, yes?

I think a set up that carries well and comfortably and keeps yours arms and hands free. The less stress placed on your arms and shoulders the more able to perform tasks after a hike. A poorly adjusted pack can tire you out and increase muscle fatigue too.

The OSOE gear looks great! I have long like the SG Micro Rig, which is also made for rifle calibers!

OH! Another thought! An LBV or similar has to kinda be balanced out or it shifts around weird and can also add to fatigue I would think.

In summary, if I had body armor (preferably modular or with MOLLE) I'd use it for sure, maybe light weight concealable body armor... BDU's with pockets for sure. A load bearing vest and rigs to carry SG shells or standardized rifle caliber magazines, pistol and knife. A well fitted/adjusted pack. A good solid sling to carry my carbine rifle or shotgun. If my pack has MOLLE webbing, any misc. pouches that can carry odd and ends. For example, a MOLLE USGI frag grenade pouch can carry a 5 round box of 12 ga. SG shells.

A few other things I think are a necessity;
glasses or goggles
gloves
binoculars or scope
hat or scarf

 

[Mudinyeri]

So, the purpose of this kit would be to be able to live and fight (an undefined enemy) for two weeks without permanent shelter of any kind? Just making sure I'm clear ....

 

[oli700]

Mud, not for my end. I more don’t want to fight with two or more weeks worth of gear that I had to carry. I have lived two weeks out of a pack and it takes a lot more than I would want to fight with.....and we were getting sling loads of MRE's so we didn’t have to carry the full two weeks worth of food.

I believe in bases, camps that are moveable but to be used as a staging and for living. I think it would depend greatly on the threat (enemy) on tactics but for the most part I don’t know if I could sit and wait for it to come to me but I would rather go on the offence, hence I don’t want to haul a bunch of stuff….more a hit and run, or any kind of dirty fighting I could think of .

As far as the enemy.....who knows? I know it won’t be zombies, it might be government collapse, it might be another country threat ….I know if I wanted to take the US now would probably be a good time for a sneak attack…or a natural disaster creating droves of roaming idiots with nothing to loose.

Brad I have to go into a meeting but when I get back I want to talk more about your awesome post !

 

[Mudinyeri]

I'm still missing the specific purpose of the kit, I guess.

 

[Sn3aKyGuY]

To be tacti-coooool! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was just hoping to get a conversation going on what everyones load outs are and opinions of those pieces.

 

[oli700]

To be tacti-coooool! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was just hoping to get a conversation going on what everyones load outs are and opinions of those pieces.

Yeah preaty much wanted to talk about different kits and ideas and didnt want to clog up Brads post so thanks sneaky I thought it was me for a second.

All opinions and comments welcome dont worry about hijack or whatever in this thread.....just speak your mind

 

[oli700]

I'm still missing the specific purpose of the kit, I guess.

there is no spoon neo....I dont know either I'm just talking, I cant nail down a specific purpose, too many situations. What do you think you would want in a domestic conflict of your choice ?

 

[oli700]

As with anything, there are many talking points. For example, weight vs. volume. This is one of the reasons .223/5.56 has done so well. 30.06 is a great round providing accuracy over range and knock down power, but to carry it efficiently, you would maybe need to have an M1 carbine and stripper clips. So the next natural consideration to me that uses a standardized magazine is .308/7.62. There are micro rigs and chest rigs for both 223 and 308 in standard sized magazine configurations.

The Mini 30 may be a decent choice, but that is a shorter cartridge and possibly in short supply. Could suck if you carry one firearm.

Well I have lots of guns. I would probably give guns to unarmed people . They might have a hard time coming up with ammo for them but its better than nothing. Depending on the situation there would be lots of help for that and reloading.

My load out will be 9mm, .223, 12 Ga, 30-06 and 22 lr. I believe these calibers will be easier to come by. And aside from the .22 reloading components for these would be more common. I believe if the citizens were involved in a conflict on US soil, working with the military they would support us with ammo and that would mean a lot of 223 , 12 , 06 and 308.I am good to 200 with iron sights with my Mini, 12 inch groups to 200. I can pull head shots at 400 with my 06 , I have only taken it to 600 yards and the group opened a lot but that was without a spotter of any kind ….about 10” at 600 with no spotter calm day.

The shotgun, while not as accurate over longer ranges and generally heavier than a carbine and ammo, provides more versatility and will operate with virtually load that can be found. With the option of "cut shells", nearly anything that matches the gauge you carry will provide defense as well as food. Again, the cost is more weight and less volume/supply.

I love love love my shotgun. If I could only choose one or I was on my own with no help or no friends in the group with a variety of firearms I wouldn’t choose the SG. I have no doubt that I could do center mass all day up to 150 yards but as you have said that is a lot of weight in slugs . Even though you could keep feeding the SG with ammo it just cant keep up with a person on a battle rifle with a stack of mags shooting back at you. If it was a squad situation than I would look at the SG as more of a contender just for the versatility of it.

You know how I feel about gear pulling double duty. If you were to look into body armor, perhaps a modular vest with plenty of MOLLE webbing. Otherwise, maybe the lighter weight vests that wont stop everything but offer some protection, say from a close range pistol, and a USGI fighting load carrier or LBV. I also like having a pistol close at hand like on the front of an LBV. A leg drop platform for me doesnt feel right, like I always have to reach too far down to draw. A good knife like the Gerber LMF II will also attach to a FLC or LBV and be within easy reach!

This is a very good and valid point. Double duty is always good and some light protection would be nice. I also like the idea of the pistol on a vest.

Sounds like you already know about carrying weight, and I'm certain you know its easier to carry what you can wear.

Oh , I have been a bull in the woods since I was 17. I have literally wore myself out. Hence the reason not to carry more than I need.

That Mule is a nice pack too!!! Also has MOLLE webbing, yes?

Not my Mule. I have about 4 of them I have everyother years model. A camel back lasts a wildland FF about 4 years then they start to fall apart, and the last one I bought didnt have MOLLE. I have one from my brother in law from desert storm and it is dessert camo ..no pockets or anything just a sleeve and a bladder with the insulated hose kit.

I think a set up that carries well and comfortably and keeps yours arms and hands free. The less stress placed on your arms and shoulders the more able to perform tasks after a hike. A poorly adjusted pack can tire you out and increase muscle fatigue too.

Without a doubt

A few other things I think are a necessity;
glasses or goggles
gloves
binoculars or scope
hat or scarf

This all sounds good although I am not big on gloves unless I am cold.

 

[Rossignol]

Real quick like, on the gloves. Reason I like gloves is because they offer basic protection against wear and tear. Small cuts and knicks can prevent being able to properly manipulate features on a firearm. In my mind and from experience, I'm specifically thinking of a handgun.

I'm sure it could interfere with other small tasks too. Not necessarily make it so things cant be done, just make things slow and difficult.

 

[oli700]

yeah, PPE is good...I have a hard time with glove fit.....I need XXL leather gloves at work and my hands are damn near leather at this point in my life, although the office component for the last 6 years at work sure have softened them up some

 

[Mudinyeri]

I'm still missing the specific purpose of the kit, I guess.

there is no spoon neo....I dont know either I'm just talking, I cant nail down a specific purpose, too many situations. What do you think you would want in a domestic conflict of your choice ?

If there is no spoon ... how can I bend it?

I have Bug-out Bags, Get-home Bags, Day-hunt Bags, Long-hunt Bags ... was just trying to get a sense of what you were looking to talk about.

 

[oli700]

Cool, so if a situation comes up you are going to a bag , grab it up and take off somewhere ? Bug out Bag ? is it full of guns and ammo? food and cloths ?

 

[Mudinyeri]

More than likely, I'll bug-in. If there is an immediate threat, like a house fire, we have bug-out bags for each family member. We do not keep weapons or ammo in the bug-out bags. They are for supplies and provisions, not personal defense.

If we're talking total civil collapse, we have a bug-out location. It's a permanent shelter WELL off the beaten path. Like you, I have no itention of trying to run-and-gun, while trying to protect my family, living out of a pack. I've done it before when I was young and dumb and full of ... well, you get the idea. Now that I'm staring down the barrel of 50 (years of age) with a wife and son, that's not a work-able plan. I run across a good number of people on web forums who think they're going to grab their kit or BOB and live off the land for a period of time yet they've never even tent camped. I'm not saying that's the case with anyone here but all too often people glamorize SHTF scenarios and have no idea what SHTF really looks like. Slept in a foxhole in the rain for several days with nothing but a poncho to keep you dry and nothing but MRE's to eat? I'll give you a 50/50 chance if you bug out to the woods. Play Black Ops 12 hours a day and never spent a night out under the stars - except that one time you passed out drunk in Cancun? I'll give you about 12 hours in a real SHTF scenario.

Sorry, I'm probably coming off grumpy. Age and the Obama presidency will do that to a guy.

 

[oli700]

Awesome, I agree with your train of thought, most have not a clue what it is to dig deep into their soul. I appreciate your straight shooting...no apology necessary. Please continue to call it as you see it.

 

[John A.]

living off the land is hard. If anyone thinks it's a walk in the park, or straight 40 hour job, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Rossignol]

Mud, I totally agree with your statements, especially the age and Obama part!

I used to be the kind of guy who thought it would be great to have to head out to the mountains, or Manitoba or where ever... But getting older and with kids, you have to be almost simple to not realize just what all that means. I dont think there is any way to be totally prepared. I posted that thing about hitting my ankle with a hatchet. I went to the hospital. But what if we are living everyday in that scenario? No hospital?

Long story short, it can be easy to romanticize as long as you dont spend too much time thinkin about the reality of it!

Toby, you mention having a bag for each family member. I dont have anything that specific, but I have been trying to divide everything up to share the load among each of us.

 

[Mudinyeri]

Yes, each family member has a BOB and each vehicle has a GHB. Family member BOB's are specific to each individual. Mine is about 50% larger and is loaded with some shared items.

Growing up, we pretty much lived a subsistence lifestyle. Granted, we had a permanent roof over our heads but about the only things we "consumed" were fuel for the vehicles and propane and electricity for cooking and heating. Our kitchen sink was equipped with a hand pump. We had chickens and gathered our own eggs. We had milk and beef cattle. We had hogs. We had a couple goats (one of my brothers was allergic to cow's milk). I could do it again, if I had to, but living out of a pack with no permanent shelter would be a tough row to hoe.

 

[Itsricmo]

Woo Almost a year old and I'm going to bring it back from the dead to ask:


Has anyone gotten any experience with the SOE 12ga Shotgun Rig?

 

[Rossignol]

The only one I know of with specific experience and plenty of it is M24.