Muslims arrested at water reservoir

[GunnyGene]

Our enemies have always hated us, the west...not so much for what we are but more for what we have. I believe that wholeheartedly. As many muslims and middle easterners as I have ever met, have all assimilated to the extent at least of enjoying the lifestyle perks that come with western life. Not quite sure what part of our western culture they find so evil. It's certainly not money, cars, big houses or most things that go with an affluent lifestyle. IMO, religion and the so-called "jihad" are an excuse to try to take what we have.

The carnage is definitely a means to an end...that being, that we would feel the same woes and religious chains that their own nutcase societies have imposed on them. And, as LES stated setting our nations on fire with suspicion and security checkpoints, etc.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my earlier post, but I am in no way advocating the watering down of freedom or the erosion of rights by way of knee-jerk reaction. But, rather was stating that each of us recognizing the threat is critical. IMO, we are facing threats on many levels both at the governmental level down to my own backyard. I am in complete agreement that we need to each be responsible for our own personal security and do our part to ensure the continuation of our way of life.

Unfortunately, their plan is working so far and I pray we can stop it before this goes too far.

I'm pretty sure we're on the same page. It's a complex issue with no easy answers. Especially because of the centuries long nature of a conflict that has outlived many nations. Often, I find myself mired in my own confused thoughts about it.

Ever read The Clash of Civilizations by Samuel Huntington? It's a book now, but the original short article is available as a pdf: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/pnorris/A ... _Clash.pdf

Sir William Muir in 1881, had this to say about Islam:

Some, indeed, dream of an Islam in the future, rationalised and regenerate. All this has been tried already, and has miserably failed. The Koran has so encrusted the religion in a hard unyielding casement of ordinances and social laws, that if the shell be broken the life is gone. A rationalistic Islam would be Islam no longer. The contrast between our own faith and Islam is most remarkable. There are in our Scriptures living germs of truth, which accord with civil and religious liberty, and will expand with advancing civilisation. In Islam it is just the reverse. The Koran has no such teaching as with us has abolished polygamy, slavery, and arbitrary divorce, and has elevated woman to her proper place. As a Reformer, Mahomet did advance his people to a certain point, but as a Prophet he left them fixed immovably at that point for all time to come. The tree is of artificial planting. Instead of containing within itself the germ of growth and adaptation to the various requirements of time and clime and circumstance, expanding with the genial sunshine and rain from heaven, it remains the same forced and stunted thing as when first planted some twelve centuries ago."

 

[cmcdonald]

Ever read The Clash of Civilizations by Samuel Huntington? It's a book now, but the original short article is available as a pdf: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/pnorris/A ... _Clash.pdf

Sir William Muir in 1881, had this to say about Islam:

Some, indeed, dream of an Islam in the future, rationalised and regenerate. All this has been tried already, and has miserably failed. The Koran has so encrusted the religion in a hard unyielding casement of ordinances and social laws, that if the shell be broken the life is gone. A rationalistic Islam would be Islam no longer. The contrast between our own faith and Islam is most remarkable. There are in our Scriptures living germs of truth, which accord with civil and religious liberty, and will expand with advancing civilisation. In Islam it is just the reverse. The Koran has no such teaching as with us has abolished polygamy, slavery, and arbitrary divorce, and has elevated woman to her proper place. As a Reformer, Mahomet did advance his people to a certain point, but as a Prophet he left them fixed immovably at that point for all time to come. The tree is of artificial planting. Instead of containing within itself the germ of growth and adaptation to the various requirements of time and clime and circumstance, expanding with the genial sunshine and rain from heaven, it remains the same forced and stunted thing as when first planted some twelve centuries ago."

I haven't read that work, but will check out the link. Thanks Gunny.

Not to wander too far off topic here, but like you, I have often wondered how such an oppressive religion and backward way of thinking gains so much ground, especially in today's world of information and communication. I can understand that in centuries past especially in lands where Christianity had no foothold that such rationalizations held no meaning. These people have always thrived on the fear they create in those they proselytize, leading to enslavement of non-converts and domination of those who "believe". This has been well documented for centuries and yet they continue to thrive and multiply; I have a terrible time processing this thought.

Here is where you enter the debate on morality and what exactly is morality? Morality is what you believe it to be...it's relative to your system of values and/or beliefs. It is also what is making this situation so difficult for the western world. We've largely lost our own moral compass and so we flounder in indecision and bickering, and this to our own hurt.

Here in lies the greatest problem and threat of Islam to the western world; they sincerely believe they are right and justified by their god. That being said, they kill each other, they are supposedly to kill all non-believers (though there is some debate on the interpretation of the Koran on that one) and they despise the Jews with a special hatred reserved for them alone. The Muslims and many Arab nations have tried to wipe out the nation of Israel from time immemorial without success. We could learn a few things from the Israelis...they have survived with much less defenses and people again since 1947.

The blood-lust displayed by Islam as a group is frightening and the little regard held for human life is truly disturbing and incomprehensible to most of us. I think this is what stymies most westerners in their considerations of Islam and at that, we just can't wrap our heads around it. It doesn't make sense...not even nonsense to us. As I see it, that is their advantage. Our apathy and years of success have made us fat and we are loathed to move from our comfort. That also, is to their advantage.

IMO, if they don't intend to kill us all, they certainly mean to enslave and control us by whatever means necessary to bring about their dominance.

Sorry for the long post, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[GunnyGene]

Cultural tolerance (including religious tolerance), is a concept that is foreign to Islam. This is what is so difficult for other cultures (such as ours) to understand or deal with. Cultural tolerance within Islam is tantamount to surrender of their most fundamental world view. Mere acceptance of the legitimacy of other world views would destroy Islam, as Muir stated in the quote up thread.

 

[tomservo92]

DHS is too busy buying bullets.

And watching "domestic terrorists" (e.g. political opponents of BO).


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[John A.]

Very true.

 

[carbinemike]

Cultural tolerance (including religious tolerance), is a concept that is foreign to Islam.

Exactly...this is why I am not against stereotyping in the war on terror (and no, the war on terror is not over). I have not forgotten the lack of public condemnation from the US muslim population after 9/11. I heard more complaints that muslims were immediately suspected than calls for an end to terrorism.

I read an article in a recent Time magazine that delved into trading freedom for safety and where to draw the line. One part mentioned that while under Obama domestic spying has been made easier and more common but spying on mosques has been made more difficult. Yet another thing The Leader is screwing up.