Velcro cards vs rigid side saddles?

[Larry23433]

What's everyone's opinions on using the soft detachable style shotgun cards like the Esstac's vs using hard mounted side saddles like the Tacstar?

I'm having an internal debate in my head and need some others opinions lol.

I previously liked my Tacstar but after one of the screws broke I'm kinda leaning away from getting another one. I like the hard mounted style because it's obviously more secure vs the Velcro where Im worried it could get knocked off easily. But with the Velcro mount I don't need to use my trigger pin or ejector screw as mounting points so the gun stays in factory form.

Help me choose!

 

[Ernst]

ESSTAC all the way, Use 3M industrial velcro on the receiver and they will not fall off. In fact, you must rip them off with the loop.

And please don't buy the cheap substitute shot cards on amazon and Ebay. They won't hold up.

I've use ESSTAC for years and they stay loaded all the time and the shells never fall out. And I run the majority of the rounds brass down on both a 500 and a 590 Shockwave. Pull the empty card off and slap on a loaded one in a couple of seconds and you're good to go.

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

ESSTAC all the way, Use 3M industrial velcro on the receiver and they will not fall off. In fact, you must rip them off with the loop.

And please don't buy the cheap substitute shot cards on amazon and Ebay. They won't hold up.

I've use ESSTAC for years and they stay loaded all the time and the shells never fall out. And I run the majority of the rounds brass down on both a 500 and a 590 Shockwave. Pull the empty card off and slap on a loaded one in a couple of seconds and you're good to go.

Regards

Trust me I know all about buying cheap knockoff crap from eBay/Amazon which is why I mentioned the Esstac's by name lol. How someone could screw up Velcro and elastic is beyond me but eBay would find a way...

 

[Ernst]

Quality gun parts are not cheap and cheap gun parts are not quality!

Pretty much sums up this and most related situations.

Regards

 

[cmcdonald]

Quality gun parts are not cheap and cheap gun parts are not quality!

Pretty much sums up this and most related situations.

Regards

Does the velcro backing (I'm assuming it's adhesive) leave a mess on the gun or bugger up the finish if you want to change it up?

 

[Ernst]

Does the velcro backing (I'm assuming it's adhesive) leave a mess on the gun or bugger up the finish if you want to change it up?

No, if you take the time to remove it the right way. Most folks obviously never attempt this because with the 3M industrial strength product it will last a lifetime.

And you can cut around the area where the serial number is and any pin locations so that precludes the need to remove the velcro.

But if you want to remove it a heat gun will loosen the adhesive by starting at one end and slowly working it loose. And then you can take several types of common products to remove any residual adhesive. Kerosene or even WD40 will work and not hurt the finish.

I use the 7 shot card on my 500 and 590 and there is plenty of room but they do make smaller capacity versions.

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

I can attest to the strength of the 3M VHB tape that's on the industrial Velcro strips. We had a job at work where we needed to put these steel fins in a air mixture tank and absolutely could not weld inside the tank. Huge engineering failure from the ground up that would have cost a fortune to start over. We literally went to McMaster and bought a bunch of 3m vhb double sided tape and glued these 80 pounds fins on. They asked if that would hold and we all just shrugged... no other options so the boss man said send it!

Still works 8 years later.

Velcro I don't trust much, the 3m tape on the back of it, absolutely.

 

[Larry23433]

Anyway, I bought a set of the 6 round Esstac's. I thought they were way more expensive than $15 bucks for some reason. Even if they don't work out for me, I can't be mad at $15 bucks each. And worst case scenario like Ernst said, 5 minutes with a heat gun I can pull them off no harm no foul. I overthink too much...

 

[Ernst]

Apex, I suspect you will be happy with them. One method I use is to install the card with the loop to the rear so you can grab the loop and rip it forward and off. Much easier than having the loop forward and ripping the card back toward your face.

These cards fit very nicely in AR pouches if you use any or like many of us just stick them in your pants or jacket pocket with the loop up to grab. They will also stand up well in a dump pouch if you use one. Lots of ways to carry spares.

Some folks like to carry shells brass up while others like brass down but really best to find which works for you. Good luck!

Regards

 

[cmcdonald]

No, if you take the time to remove it the right way. Most folks obviously never attempt this because with the 3M industrial strength product it will last a lifetime.

And you can cut around the area where the serial number is and any pin locations so that precludes the need to remove the velcro.

But if you want to remove it a heat gun will loosen the adhesive by starting at one end and slowly working it loose. And then you can take several types of common products to remove any residual adhesive. Kerosene or even WD40 will work and not hurt the finish.

I use the 7 shot card on my 500 and 590 and there is plenty of room but they do make smaller capacity versions.

Regards

Thanks Ernst. I have what amounts to a rattlecan finish on mine...well done I think and clearcoated (its held up very well over the last 5 years) but rattlecan nonetheless. I think if I slapped that 3M adhesive on there it would be pretty permanent. I am doubtful that finish would withstand the removal of a top rate adhesive. Removal would probably equal a full stripping and refinishing project...lol.

 

[Ernst]

CMC, I hear you and you're probably right. There's rattle can finishes and then there's rattlecan finishes.

I have a couple of guns with rattlecan finishes that get modified off and on occasionally depending on the season and / or the wear & tear. So I don't worry about "refinishhing" them. I typically just take some Scotchbrite to where I want to repaint to rough up the surface and paint away. But I've never clear coated them. I also have a couple I've destressed so they look like they have been through the war.

I've never taken stick on 3M velcro off painted surfaces but given it's clear coated you might only need to reshoot the area with clear coat. Think if I was consideing it I'd take a piece of metal and rattlecan paint and clear coat it and once it's cured attached a piece of 3M velcro. It takes the velcro a couple of days to cure but after a couple of weeks you could see if you could remove it without damage. Would be an interesting test.

Regards

 

[cmcdonald]

CMC, I hear you and you're probably right. There's rattle can finishes and then there's rattlecan finishes.

I have a couple of guns with rattlecan finishes that get modified off and on occasionally depending on the season and / or the wear & tear. So I don't worry about "refinishhing" them. I typically just take some Scotchbrite to where I want to repaint to rough up the surface and paint away. But I've never clear coated them. I also have a couple I've destressed so they look like they have been through the war.

I've never taken stick on 3M velcro off painted surfaces but given it's clear coated you might only need to reshoot the area with clear coat. Think if I was consideing it I'd take a piece of metal and rattlecan paint and clear coat it and once it's cured attached a piece of 3M velcro. It takes the velcro a couple of days to cure but after a couple of weeks you could see if you could remove it without damage. Would be an interesting test.

Regards

A good friend of mine did the matte clear for me...about 6 or more coats. He then "baked" it at about 100F (in a small plywood box rigged with a 100W light bulb in the bottom) for about 12 hours. The clear coat has held up very well. I usually opt for a buttstock shell holder, but that's not as slick as a side saddle. Maybe I'll have to go with a rigid one.

You mentioned Esstac cards, I've been eyeballing their 5.56/12ga combo mag pouches for awhile...a few of those are in my future.

I'm like you now, I used to be brass up on my shells but I found after more practice I prefer brass down it's just easier/faster to pluck from the holder. If I'm carrying buck and slugs on the stock (usually do) I'll put the slugs up front and with brass down for fast access. I usually have a few rounds 00 buck already in the tube, being able to switch and top up with slugs in a hurry is good.

 

[Ernst]

CMC, these shot cards, especially the seven shot ones, will fit in any AR mag pouch but I typically carry an extra card or two in any pants / jacket pocket or in my dump pouch on my pistol belt.

I guess given my military background I'm old school in that I "combat" or "tactical" load my 500 / 590 as I expend rounds. If I shoot two or three rounds I blind load two as I'm on the move or stationary and evaluating the situation. Thus on my seven round card the most forward round is brass up "emergency round" just in case I ever expend the last round in the magazine tube and all the others on the card. So it serves as a reach over round while I slap on a new loaded card. But in most cases if I'm down to only one or two rounds on the card and the magazine is full I just hold these rounds in my hand or throw them in my pocket while I change cards.

Now typically I carrry all the other rounds on the card brass down to facilitate blind loading. The only exception is on my 590 Shockwave which I carry as a work/woods gun and the rear two shells are always 3 inch bear loads which I carry brass up to differentiate from the 00 buck. I pull shells from the card without ever looking at the card thus totally by location and feel. And always work from the forward part of the card toward the rear so you blindly slide your hand back until you reach the next round.

My goal is to never get below two rounds in the magazine tube.

You and I seem to be like thinkers mainly because we live in bear and cougar country. In fact, I had two full grown black bears on the property last night. If we're outside we're carrying some weapon for bear protection. Magnificent animals but never trust them and most folks have no idea how fast they can run.

Regards

 

[Ernst]

CMC, if you want to try shot cards you likely could attach a flat thin aluminum plate like a hard mounted side saddles and attach the 3M velcro to the plate . That way you wouldn't have a worries about the finish.

Just a thought.

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

CMC, if you want to try shot cards you likely could attach a flat thin aluminum plate like a hard mounted side saddles and attach the 3M velcro to the plate . That way you wouldn't have a worries about the finish.

Just a thought.

Regards

Van comp makes a kit like that, I really liked it until I saw it costs over $100 lol.

 

[Ernst]

Alex, think most of us could take a piece of aluminum, counter sink two threaded holes in it and find two bolts in the scrap bin for maybe a couple of dollars total cost and half hour of time.

$120 - got to be kidding!

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

Alex, think most of us could take a piece of aluminum, counter sink two threaded holes in it and find two bolts in the scrap bin for maybe a couple of dollars total cost and half hour of time.

$120 - got to be kidding!

Regards

Exactly! It looks high quality but you could buy a Tacstar side saddle, toss the shell holders in the trash and just use the plate, then buy the Esstac's to stick on it and it would still be half the price of the vang comp lol.

The only reason I'm not going that route is because I want the original hardware and trigger pin back so I can disassemble the gun without any tools. I really like being able to field strip the gun with whatever stick I find laying on the ground...

 

[Ernst]

Fully understand Apex. I've simply used the 3M stick on velcro stuck directly to the receiver and cut around where the serial number and pins are located for access. Works for me and easy takedown in the field.

But CMC was concerned about the finish and I think he could easily take a piece of aluminum plate, drill and tap it and use some shoulder screws to mount it and only for a few dollars without anything more than common tools.

But you're right about using a commercial side saddle plate as another option. That would also be easy.

Regards

 

[Ernst]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier when we were discussing the shot cards is a shot card loading technique I've used.

There are times when you're carrying different types of shells (let's say for discussion slugs vs buckshot) on different cards and if you already have a partially loaded card attached via velcro to the shotgun and need a different type of round you pull the second card and using the pull loop on the card simply loop it over the thumb of your support hand. The card will hang vertical and you can pull shells with your loading hand. I typically start at the lower rung and work upward as I pull shells by feel.

If you use all these rounds you simply drop the empty card on the ground by release it from your thumb. But if you still have rounds in this hanging card it's easy to just let it hang from your support thumb until you have an opportunity to stow it. It really doesn't get in the way during firing operations.

Hope this description is clear but if you have questions please let me know.

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

The cards came today, after looking at them I understand exactly what you're describing Enrst

Overall I gotta say I'm pretty impressed. I mean it's just some Velcro and elastic but they have a really thick backing to them so they are nice and rigid, the elastic is really strong, and the stitching is similar to what you see on high quality military gear. Even the little pull loop is actual paracord and not just a peice of string.

Pretty cool. As long as the glue on the Velcro backing stays strong and doesn't peel off the receiver I'll be very happy. I'm letting it warm up before I put it on...