W.H. Posts The Executive Order Plans

[carbinemike]

According to the Blaze the following were posted and are what the president plans to implement around Congress tomorrow.

Lowlights as I see them:

To vague: No threshold limit to indicate the difference between a private seller and an FFL. It sounds like a gotcha law.
No NFA guns transferred via trusts. I guess that will stop a lot of crime (with all the sarcasm I can muster).
Work with states to insure NICS data is transferred to the feds.
Add 250 FBI workers to NICS. It sounds like this is a result of the Charlestown murders where the system stopped the buyer but they screwed it up and left him get a gun.
Update NICS system. (It sounds good on paper but then again I remember the Obamacare system rollout)
200 more ATF agents....yippie!
$4 million and more ATF agents for ballistic evidence work
ATF establishing an internet investigation center to work on online gun trafficking. Mention you have a gun for sale in the internet and I'm sure you will be checked out.
Establish that the licensee shipping a gun is responsible to report if it was lost or stolen.
Inform Attorney Generals around the country that they should help work to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers.
$500 million to help people with serious mental health issue care. ($500 million isn't even enough to help the mental defectives in the white house.)
Remove gun rights from people on social security that can't take care of themselves. (I thought they already did this)
Health and Human Services has now ruled that some HIPPA information can be shared to the NICS system to screw over people who seek mental health treatment.
Departments of Defense, Justice and Homeland Security must now conduct or sponser "smart gun" research and development, That is code for "we will tell the gun makers that they must do this if they want government contracts.

Link:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...tions-obama-will-take-to-reduce-gun-violence/


Image source: White House

Image source: White House

Image source: White House

 

[MikeD]

Hire a butload of people and allocate millions at our expense and push smart gun technology on us while violating our hippa privacy rights by sharing even more info about us. with multiple departments.

I think that's the jist of it.


I still want to know who these people are that are buying guns from dealers and online without background checks? At least in MI every handgun transfer requires a background check unless the buyer has a CPL in which case they have already gone through extensive local and federal background checks to even get it. Every long gun transfer via dealer requires background check unless the buyer has a CPL.

 

[carbinemike]

Hire a butload of people and allocate millions at our expense and push smart gun technology on us while violating our hippa privacy rights by sharing even more info about us. with multiple departments.

I think that's the jist of it.


I still want to know who these people are that are buying guns from dealers and online without background checks? At least in MI every handgun transfer requires a background check unless the buyer has a CPL in which case they have already gone through extensive local and federal background checks to even get it. Every long gun transfer via dealer requires background check unless the buyer has a CPL.

Pretty much MikeD. More incremental encroachment.

 

[John A.]

He's so stupid.

An FFL can only sell a gun at his licensed business address or a sanctioned gun show in their state. This requires a background check on all transfers. FFL's can't even sell guns at flea markets and on the side of the road yard sales. Only at their business address and sanctioned gun shows.

All transfers have to have background checks.

It was worth repeating twice because that is already the law. There is no GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.

further, an FFL cannot transfer a gun to anyone without a background check and this includes online sales. They can only ship a gun to another licensed dealer, who then performs the background check. Ultimately, the "gun show loophole" is erroneous information at best. If he understood the tens of thousands of existing gun laws, he would know that. Further, those who are supposed to know that already, should have advised him of such so he isn't a complete idiot in front of the entire world. If he went against their advise, then it's all on him anyway and he is a dumbass in front of the whole world. Either way, wrong information is wrong information.

As for "gun trusts" for an NFA device, they were setup as a safeguard or a failsafe because in some jurisdictions, the chief law enforcement officer will refuse to sign the tax stamp form based on nothing or nothing more than personal opinion, and thus they alone have the power to deny a constitutional right (to bear arms) without recourse or grievance, however, trusts were developed as a means to still be able to exersize them.

For what it is worth, if a gun trust is null and void, so is the jurisdiction and power of the federal government.

You're shaking your head asking why?

Because the United States Government is a corporation. If my trust/corp is invalid, this would invalidate theirs as well.

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm

http://www.supremelaw.org/letters/us-v-usa.htm

 

[Tuflehundon]

Just goes to show how much of a lame duck he is. really didn't do anything, and shows he truely doesn't even know what the laws already are. The part about online sales requiring a bckground check are already the law. Others are completely uninforcible, like the threashold for needing an FFL if selling personal firearms.

 

[oli700]

its all about private transfers.....its getting background checks for private transactions

gun show here didn't have to have background checks till recently because a lot of places didn't have the means to background check where they had gun shows ......FFL or otherwise, loophole ........now that there is cell service almost everywhere there is no excuse anymore

then it went to FFL had to do it but anyone could get a table at the show , stack it full of guns and sell them all day with no checking of any sort

then out of nowhere Oregon made up this private party background check law

THAT is what your all about to start doing , if you choose

 

[MikeD]

I forsee a run on 80% receivers coming soon.

 

[carbinemike]

I knew it didn't sound right when they didn't make a black and white distinction between a private seller and someone that needs to get an FFL. From today: "Jarret then said that selling as few as “two firearms” could require somebody to obtain a federal firearms license. However, later in the call, Attorney General Lynch revised that number down further. “It can be as few as one or two depending upon the circumstances under which the person sells the gun,” Lynch said."
Gotcha laws are a load of crap.

The Obama administration announced during a conference call with reporters Monday evening that the president’s upcoming executive order may require somebody selling even a single firearm to obtain a Federal Firearms License.
During the call White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest, White House Senior Adviser Valerie Jarrett, and Attorney General Loretta Lynch explained the details of the order, which will be announced publicly by President Obama Tuesday at 11:40 a.m. The action, officials explained, would include guidance on how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives will now determine who is “engaged in the business” of selling firearms under federal law and, therefore, who is required to obtain a license to sell firearms.
“ATF will make clear that whether you are ‘engaged in the business’ depends on the facts and circumstances,” Jarrett said. “On factors such as: whether you represent yourself as a dealer, such as making business cards or taking credit card statements. Whether you sell firearms shortly after they’re acquired or whether you buy or sell in the original packaging.”
“Numbers are relevant. The ATF and DOJ did not identify a magic number of weapons that makes you engaged in the business because that would limit their ability to bring prosecution.”
Jarret then said that selling as few as “two firearms” could require somebody to obtain a federal firearms license. However, later in the call, Attorney General Lynch revised that number down further. “It can be as few as one or two depending upon the circumstances under which the person sells the gun,” Lynch said.
The federal firearms license application process takes several months to complete and costs a significant amount of money, according to the ATF website.

 

[John A.]

Without federal funding (ie., financial support from congress and our tax dollars), this is DOA.

 

[CaddmannQ]

More half-truths and blatant lies, FUD and foolishness.

 

[MikeD]

 

[Tom396]

I forsee a run on 80% receivers coming soon.

I foresee a run on everything, as per usual. Take care. Tom Worthington

 

[John A.]

A run?

From what?

 

[cmcdonald]

Sounds like posturing without much substance.

We just witnessed the same thing here during our election. Justin Trudeau, now our illustrious dimwit-in-chief spouted off about making sure licenses are in place, can't drive around with restricted weapons, blah, blah, blah.....already on the books you schmuck!

All it does is serve to BS the uneducated and informed Libtard robots into thinking he's actually doing something. Of course, the Libtard media won't call BS on their beloved darling JT.

I really believe our leaders have bought into the UN idealogy of citizen disarmament...hook, line and sinker. They won't be satisfied until we're all disarmed and pacified.

 

[Tom396]

A run?

From what?

From more talk about limiting firearm freedoms. Whenever another restriction comes along, we react by getting ours before we cannot. Long shot that you and I might actually not be able to get what we want, but I wish I had bought more .22lr before 2008 too. Take care. Tom Worthington

 

[cmcdonald]

From more talk about limiting firearm freedoms. Whenever another restriction comes along, we react by getting ours before we cannot. Long shot that you and I might actually not be able to get what we want, but I wish I had bought more .22lr before 2008 too. Take care. Tom Worthington

Not to derail the thread, but fortunately 22LR has started to appear on shelves again in the last 4-5 months. I've bought a couple bulk packs to replenish what I shot. But certainly wouldn't say I've got enough.....

Let's hope we don't see a repeat of panic buying....

 

[CaddmannQ]

I'm finding some .22LR, but no .38s
.38 specials & .357 are somewhat available, but no regular .38 cal

Back OT, I called my buddy to see if my new guns came in, & he said the Evil Roy, is impressive and the Henry is exquisite.
Also his phone is ringing all day with new customers.

Stock market is off but gun sales are on.

 

[John A.]

@Tom396 Unless you have an anti gun Chief LEO and you're wanting NFA guns on a trust, that appears to be the biggest infringement. I personally think that the guidelines for NFA ownership should be exactly the same as a 4473. No more, no less.

All the NFA guidelines were written back in 1934 before we had individual social security numbers, the discovery of fingerprints being unique was "high tech", before we had computers and a database with the fbi that list all felons and folks who are currently not allowed to own, and we should never be forced to ask the chief leo officer "permission" by signing the paper saying he knows of a reason why we shouldn't be allowed to own. The chief leo permission is the primary reason most people are forced to get a gun trust is for no other reason than their sheriff won't sign gun forms (which is more common than many people realize).

Perhaps just as big of an infringement may be the "unable to manage affairs by the SSA" (in reference to beneficiaries). This could be due to many numerous reasons other than mental. Physical disabilities may also have someone named as a beneficiary to handle their affairs in their absence due even to being laid up in a bed. Whether permanently or even temporarily. This should not be allowed to stand. Period.

The "vagueness" of who is a gun dealer is an area of concern, though, congress would have to get involved there, especially where enforcement and budget goes. The current law (which the president cannot change) says an FFL is:

Federal law prohibits any person from engaging in the business of dealing in firearms without a federal firearms license.1 As applied to a firearms dealer, the term “engaged in the business” is defined as:

[A] person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.2

FFl's already have to do background checks, there are no exceptions to that yesterday, today or tomorrow, and we all know here that you can't just have a gun shipped to you.

The only time an FFL doesn't have to do a background check is to another federally licensee, although they have to have a signed copy of their FFL in lieu of that and has to file it instead of the 4473. In which case, there is a program called FFL EZ CHECK that allows each FFL to verify the licensee information just to make sure the licenses haven't been forged or whatever. This takes place already, so there is absolutely no change where that is concerned at all. All this does is degrade their ability to use the term "gun show loophole" anymore, because there is no such thing nor was there yesterday, last month or a year ago. An FFL can not transfer a gun to a non-licensed person without a background check. End of story. Anyone saying otherwise is truly ignorant of the facts and the law.

FFL's already have to notify BATFE if there are firearm thefts. That too is already law. Again, obama is a dumbass. Nothing new here either.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/report-firearms-theft-or-loss-0

Smart guns.
Nobody wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. Not the military, not gun manufacturers, and not consumers. This is obamas' legacy. I'm sure Russia or North Korea can't wait for that to happen though. So they can get on the battlefield with us, send out a reset code to all our soldiers weapons that prevents them from firing and then decimate our soldiers. Look world. obama is showing all his stupid again.

 

[MikeD]

Upon thinking on this I think his back door is the mental illness factor. Once they open that door, any number of things can prohibit one from buying, possessing or owning a gun.

You doctor thinks you look depressed and notes that on your chart, next thing you know you're on the list!! I think he is going to use the mentally ill to disarm law abiding people. While I agree mental illness is a issue in the US, it's also a very slippery slope right into Pandora's box. The spectrum of mental illness is very broad and I think a lot of people could unwittingly be dumped into this catch all simply buy being prescribed a certain drug , even if it was prescribed for a different purpose...i.e. anti anxiety drugs are also muscle relaxers.

Liberals already think the fact the people want to own and carry guns is in itself a mental illness. See where that can go?

A run?

From what?

I was just expressing my thought that in order to circumvent registration on private sales even more people might opt for 80% receivers

 

[CaddmannQ]

. . .Smart guns.
Nobody wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. Not the military, not gun manufacturers, and not consumers. This is obamas' legacy. I'm sure Russia or North Korea can't wait for that to happen though. So they can get on the battlefield with us, send out a reset code to all our soldiers weapons that prevents them from firing and then decimate our soldiers. Look world. obama is showing all his stupid again.

The people thinking this stuff up are nuts.

This gun is electric. It'll have to have a battery. It'll need to be cleaned & repaired too, so there will be a way to get inside. If I can take the gun apart I can rig it to fire without the original circuitry.