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When is a firearm "Loaded"

GunnyGene

GunnyGene

Racist old man
BANNED
According to NH Supreme Court:
Last week, the New Hampshire Supreme Court handed down an important ruling relating to the definition of a ‘loaded pistol or revolver’ [under RSA 159:4 (2002)].

The state Supreme Court ruled, “that in order for a pistol or revolver to be considered “loaded” within the meaning of RSA 159:4, the pistol or revolver must contain a cartridge in the chamber or must contain a magazine, cylinder, or clip inserted in or otherwise adjoined to the firearm such that the firearm can be discharged through normal operation.”

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state ... ision.aspx
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Link to ruling in the text of the above. Still a little confusing to me, since a revolver does not have a "chamber" incorporated into the barrel. Would their definition mean that a revolver must have a round in position to be fired without rotating the cylinder in order to be considered loaded? And what is considered the starting point for "normal operation"?
 
What does "normal operation" mean?

Is a gun loaded if the chamber is empty but a magazine is inserted? Or is it loaded only when the gun can be fired through the "normal operation" of pulling the trigger (i.e. a revolver where the chamber could be empty but a pull of the trigger will advance the next round into play)?

I know I tend to overthink things but when I read it, it still sounds a little unclear to me.
 
MikeD said:
What does "normal operation" mean?

Is a gun loaded if the chamber is empty but a magazine is inserted? Or is it loaded only when the gun can be fired through the "normal operation" of pulling the trigger (i.e. a revolver where the chamber could be empty but a pull of the trigger will advance the next round into play)?

I know I tend to overthink things but when I read it, it still sounds a little unclear to me.
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I don't think that you are over-thinking it in this case. Especially considering the difference in "normal operation" regarding single vs double action revolvers. The point at which "normal operation" begins would seem to be critical in a legal sense.

For a semi-auto pistol with a magazine containing ammunition inserted, or a pump gun with shells in the mag tube, normal operation would seem to begin with racking the slide. But in the courts view, they seem to indicate that normal operation begins with pulling the trigger with a round already in the chamber.

I think this ruling was made without a full understanding of the mechanics of various firearms, either deliberately or thru ignorance.
 
GunnyGene said:
Link to ruling in the text of the above. Still a little confusing to me, since a revolver does not have a "chamber" incorporated into the barrel. Would their definition mean that a revolver must have a round in position to be fired without rotating the cylinder in order to be considered loaded? And what is considered the starting point for "normal operation"?
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With a revolver normal operation is "pull the trigger". Even if the cylinder chamber inline with the barrel is empty, the next round will fire. So for a revolver my understanding would be if there are ANY rounds in the cylinder it is loaded.

MikeD said:
What does "normal operation" mean?
Is a gun loaded if the chamber is empty but a magazine is inserted? Or is it loaded only when the gun can be fired through the "normal operation" of pulling the trigger (i.e. a revolver where the chamber could be empty but a pull of the trigger will advance the next round into play)?

I know I tend to overthink things but when I read it, it still sounds a little unclear to me.
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Looking at the reasoning used, "loaded" is having a magazine inserted into the weapon. They are saying that a full magazine laying next to the weapon does not constitute a "loaded weapon". Inserting a magazine into the same weapon makes it "loaded".

Normal operation in the case of a semi auto would be to chamber a round and pull the trigger. Unless a round is already chambered. Either way there are projectiles ready to be fired.

Reading the complete narrative, the court pulled references to other states as well as NH. In some states having a loaded magazine adjacent to a weapon constitutes possessing a "loaded" weapon. There is no standardization between states. It is a way for them to make whatever you do illegal...
 
I may be giving away my age here, but in the case of a black powder guns, it's long been accepted that it is not considered loaded unless a cap is in place on the nipple, or the pan charged on a flinter. But, the ruling would seem to consider a BP gun loaded as long as there is powder and ball (s) in the gun.

This is an (admittedly uncommon) example of why I mentioned that the ruling fails to take account of the mechanics of various firearms, and therefore does not alleviate confusion.
 
seems simple to me, you guys are confusing loaded with chambered. revolvers contain 6 chambers , it is impossible to set the hammer without advancing the cylinder. An auto loader can be loaded but not chambered, so can a revolver.....but who cares, unless you live in New Hampshire ......and then who cares
 
NH=ridiculous on this. They really don't have anything better to do in their legislature?

Maybe they can take up the chicken and egg debate next.
 
carbinemike said:
Maybe they can take up the chicken and egg debate next.
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That's just a distraction to keep us diverted from the real issue of which side of the road it originated. ;) :lol:
 
Another muddy law to keep the public in the dark. I'm with Oli on this, loaded in the case of a semi auto is a loaded magazine in the gun... A wheel gun will always be chambered if rounds are inserted. And here I thought NH was the gun state everyone wanted to model after?
 
aksavanaman said:
Another muddy law to keep the public in the dark. I'm with Oli on this, loaded in the case of a semi auto is a loaded magazine in the gun... A wheel gun will always be chambered if rounds are inserted. And here I thought NH was the gun state everyone wanted to model after?
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The problem is they (the legislature) gets too far down in the weeds with stuff like this. The law should focus on the actions of the individual in the context of the circumstances, not the technical details of the hardware.
 
GunnyGene said:
The problem is they (the legislature) gets too far down in the weeds with stuff like this. The law should focus on the actions of the individual in the context of the circumstances, not the technical details of the hardware.
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I oft feel that this is by design, to further ensure that people get tripped up or too scared to move forward.
 
MikeD said:
GunnyGene said:
The problem is they (the legislature) gets too far down in the weeds with stuff like this. The law should focus on the actions of the individual in the context of the circumstances, not the technical details of the hardware.
Click to expand...

I oft feel that this is by design, to further ensure that people get tripped up or too scared to move forward.
Click to expand...

There's an old axiom that laws are written by and for lawyers. It's a job security thing. If laws, regulations, contracts, etc. were clear and understandable by ordinary mortals, there would be no need for lawyers. Most of the time, they are doing nothing except picking fly shit out of the pepper.
 
GunnyGene said:
aksavanaman said:
Another muddy law to keep the public in the dark. I'm with Oli on this, loaded in the case of a semi auto is a loaded magazine in the gun... A wheel gun will always be chambered if rounds are inserted. And here I thought NH was the gun state everyone wanted to model after?
Click to expand...

The problem is they (the legislature) gets too far down in the weeds with stuff like this. The law should focus on the actions of the individual in the context of the circumstances, not the technical details of the hardware.
Click to expand...

They get too far into the seeds because of a hundred different interpretations of the same sentence. Look at the 2nd Amendment as an example. How many people read it differently and all are convinced they are correct.

The case this revolves around is a perfect example. To all of us the gun was unloaded. To the LE who stopped him it was loaded. Who's right? According to the NH SC the accused was right. Now the responsibility lies with the LE departments to train their officers correctly.

Bottom line...if there are bullets in the gun then it is loaded.
 
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