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Would you renounce your faith?

Water Monkey

Water Monkey

The man, the myth, the monkey
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An interesting topic going on another forum so I'd pass it over here as well.

In light of the recent shooting targeting those of Christian faith. If you saw those who professed the Christian faith killed before you and asked what do you believe in... would you confess your faith or proclaim a different faith to save your skin?

Personally, I can not renounce my god for any man. I professed my love for my god and to renounce him is to bend to evil. I do not bend to evil, I fight it.
 
I would do what I needed to do to survive.

But it's an easy question for me as I am not a man of faith.
 
Not a man of faith either so I may be off base. I think it's admirable to never compromise oneself or one's word, to stand for what one believes even in the face of death. After all, your afterlife is at stake. But realistically I believe that it's also an outdated point of view that dates back to a time when soldiers faced each other wearing bright colors on the battlefield, like gentlemen. Think about it: if they round up every Christian and eliminate them all since none of them opts to renounce, what is gained? Heaven and honor for the dead, maybe, but it's also kind of a selfish move if the faith dies with them.
Another way to look at it is this: does an undercover police officer dishonor his oath when he poses as a criminal and lies in order to catch real criminals? It may be a leap, but I truly believe that we live in much more confusing times than when the Bible was written, and neither the habit nor the words define a man anymore. The end sometimes justifies the means and I think there are honorable lies if the end itself is noble.
 
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Interesting takes.

Faith aside. Would you renounce your children/family to stay alive?

We have some pretty patriotic people here. Would you swear allegiance to another flag to save yourself?

At what point will your convictions take hold and you stand firm?
 
Wouldn't renounce my faith in God, Country, or Family...EVER !!

Would carry concealed on campus...especially in todays F'd up world...

Screw the liberal agenda and their policies...I go nowhere unarmed !!

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Luke 22:36

"And He said to them, But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."

Leviticus 26:7

"And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword."

Luke 11:21

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace."




If I'm gonna die....it's gonna be in a pile of empty brass taking as many perps as I can with me !!

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It depends. I would not walk away from my loved ones in order to survive. I'm not someone who values survival over anything else, by the way. But I would not have a problem going underground and pretending openly to be something I'm not so I can keep fighting the good fight. That's what everybody involved in a resistance movement of some sort has to do. With matters of faith it's probably a little different, but your God knows who you are and it's not lying to him to lie to men. That's the way I look at it anyway.
There's an interesting line in the movie The Wild Bunch when Pike (Holden) and Dutch (Borginine) argue over the same thing. Dutch believes that what matters is who you give your word to, which not everybody will agree with. I tend to subscribe to this. But it's because of my personal take on the nature of truth and its availability to us in this world. Sorry to keep quoting movies (and criminals in movies, at that!), but another line I like is Pacino's in Scarface: "Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie."
Not an easy or clear-cut topic, the way I see it!

 
I'll say it again, I will say whatever I need to say to survive. Renouncing something is just words, it does not change my heart.

If my family was there and it was them or me, I would do what I needed to do to ensure their safety of give them the best chance of survival.

In a situation like this my family and myself, in that order, are my highest priority. if I need to do things I would never normally do to ensure their security and hopefully mine, I will do it.
 
Having never been in that situation, I would like to think that I would never renounce my faith for anything.

From what I hear, he was shooting people regardless of their answer, so perhaps the question is moot.

And, islam/muslim believers have been known to kill anyone that doesn't believe in their faith too, so I came to the conclusion long ago that people will do evil just because they can, and I'll be forgiven for taking them out because God doesn't want his children to be harmed. He never intended for his children to be persecuted. Egyptian Pharoa's are all dead now, and nazi Germany is a shadow of what it once was.

I would like to think if I am ever killed by someone, they would've at least been on the offensive moments prior.
 
SHOOTER13 said:
Would carry concealed on campus...especially in todays F'd up world...

Screw the liberal agenda and their policies...I go nowhere unarmed !!
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Case in point: the right to defend oneself and ones loved ones is natural law and even God-given, according to the very wise men who founded this country. So what is a man to do when it happens that some fools have managed to get some laws passed to cripple this inalienable right? Live like a man and tell everyone who cares to ask that he's breaking the law? If the questioner, even a snoopy LEO, has no grounds I believe it is right to ignore him or even lie to him. He is wrong to ask the question and there is no way to give him a proper answer anyway: either I am not carrying because I compromised my principles because of societal pressure and fear of unjust laws or I am and please take me to jail now. Not gonna happen. "I always tell the truth, even when I lie." ;)
 
MikeD said:
One of my favorite scenes from the Untoucables. [...] Somewhat relevent
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I love it too and it's very relevant. Another good movie line is Kurtz's (Brando) in Apocalypse Now when he mentions how the Vietnam war could be won. Breaking oaths or disregarding laws is not only acceptable, but sometimes necessary. The critical part, however, is that it has to be done by moral men, to borrow Brando's word, and those are not easy to come by. IF one strays out of fear, greed or any other human failing, then it is NOT ok. It must be to serve a higher purpose, i.e. abide by and protect other principles.
 
Baptized and Communed a Catholic, as the devoutness of my parent's faith waned, so did mine... I never was Confirmed... :(

At around 10yo, I read "Chariots of the Gods" which sort of cultivated my current train of thought. I believe "gods" are actually beings from outer space, who are more advanced than us, have figured out efficient time and space travel, and their arriving from the "heavens" impressed upon early civilization resulting in established religions. It was Man that imagined God in his likeness and elected to worship him. For all I know, the Earth could be some kind of "science experiment" from the great beyond. ;)

Lack of faith does not mean lack of morals, and I don't have any problems with any kind of religious symbolism such as The Ten Commandments outside of a courthouse or a moment of silence here or there.

I DO have a problem with someone trying to "push" their religion on me and am all for the 1st Amendment to the Constitution regarding the establishment of religion, or more specifically, the lack thereof... You believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe.

If God is so great, why doesn't he/she/they create utopia for everyone? :rolleyes:

I am uncomfortable with presidential candidates making a big deal about Planned Parenthood. In only two states did they process fetal tissue so it is not like a rampant situation. PP DOES provide vital services regarding contraception, and I'd rather put a woman on the pill or give out condoms for free than have them have an abortion or give birth to a child not necessarily wanted or able to be brought into a loving family. While I think the act of abortion is abhorrent, I am Pro-choice especially for first-term terminations prior to viability. No man or woman other than the provider of the sperm or egg should have a say in whether or not the pregnancy goes full-term. I fear this will be an issue that helps lose the election for Republicans, noting I am NOT a Republican, but a Libertarian...

Anyhow, back on topic, I am resolved to act offensively (or maybe defensively) and not converse with any potential killer, even if it costs me my life. So no, I will not renounce my lack of a god, regardless.
 
Good conversation. I was asking myself the same question earlier...would I or would I not declare my faith. Born and raised a Catholic but don't practice. Believe in God and Jesus and communicate with them in my own way. We can sit here and discuss what each one of us would do but until we are placed in the same position as the ones killed in Oregon we are no more certain of our reaction than we are of the day of our own death. I would like to think that I would have held my head high and proclaimed my faith but another part of me would be looking for a way to stay alive and possible snuff the shooter's. Hard to do the second part with a bullet in the brain. Those that chose not to disclose their faith or professed anther were still shot, just not in such a vital area (like he was doing them a favor). Many of the Jews in Germany had to make the same choice...some lied to get away, many that did felt shamed the rest of their lives. So I don't what my answer would have been...
 
I was born into a Catholic family, but I have few memories of attending church with my parents, they still believe, they just do not practice and stopped attending service when I was young.. My dads sister was a Nun and my grandparents were strong Catholics. I spend many a Sunday in church with them growing up. Not real sure where I fell off the wagon or it I was every truely on the wagon, but that is a discussion for another thread.

All I know is that too many people throughout history have been killed purely due to their beliefs. Sadly, between the continued and current current Islamic uprisings and events like this I do not foresee an end to it any time soon.
 
Bobster said:
If God is so great, why doesn't he/she/they create utopia for everyone? :rolleyes:
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The so-called 'problem of evil'... I'm no believer either, but I have no problem with it. It comes from a misunderstanding and superficial reading of the Bible. No offense - lots of people use that to justify being atheists: "If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving, why do bad things happen?". But it's not that simple.

More on topic I had missed the news item and wasn't clear on all the questions' parameters (my fault - the OP was very clear). Guy puts a gun to my head? I'll do and say anything except harm others until I can turn the tables on the bastard. Now the question I asked myself a while ago when watching videos of hostages in the Middle East is: would the prospect of escaping the dull blade to my neck thing make me call out my country publicly to influence its policies and beg for my life? I hope it wouldn't, but that's really something I could only find out one way for sure. The threat of a bullet to my head, which I've experienced before, would be unlikely to sway me. But again, in the OP's more limited sense, I wouldn't have a problem professing being a nazi or a muslim to some crazy until I can take his gun and shove it you know where.
 
If I were to have to stare down the barrel of a loaded weapon, in my current state of unmarried, and no children. I would probably proclaim my faith as "F@$k you, i hope you get what you deserve" If denying one religion or another meant staying alive then so be it. Im not devout to anything. I have beliefs, I keep them to myself. Circumstances may be different if i had a family to protect, or at least make an attempt to protect. Regardless of my situation, I hope Im putting up a fight, not just being executed.
 
I think what ever you believe in you have to stand for it. It's what makes you, you.

I too am a Christian. No way I'd say otherwise. I'm looking forward to that day when I stand in paradise. I'm not trying to fast track it, but if in that situation, I'm not going to say something else.
 
A huge question...and I can't honestly say what I'd do faced with that situation.

Like others have said, I'd like to think I wouldn't renounce my faith...but then again much greater men of faith than I, have renounced their faith under unimaginable torture and the threat of death.

Under Nicolae Ceausescu in Romania...that regime did unimaginable things to people of faith. If you've never heard of Richard Wurmbrand and this topic interests you...then I suggest you look it up. If you're not particularly interested in his faith, I'd still urge you to read one of his books on his imprisonment. It is amazing what a person can endure.
 
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