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Big racka sound

S

sjohnny

.410
Someone asked about this in the new members area and I figured I'd go ahead and put my answer down here too. This is a long standing debate and ultimately you have to decide for yourself what you will do if you find yourself in a life and death situation. It's important to think about these things before they happen. Having a plan is a big advantage even if it doesn't work out the way you thing it will. Winging it may work but I'd hate to rely on it.

As far as the big racka sound scaring away intruders: my personal opinion is that it might work but if it doesn't you have just given the turd your position and the fact that you are armed. If he is a determined offender who isn't scared of people with guns, if he's got his own gun, if he was there to kill or maim anyway, if a whole lot of other things, you have given up part of the edge that you may have had in the first place. The sound may scare away most people that are just in your house to steal your tv. It likely will not scare away a deranged psychopath, a dope fiend, a drunk, an experienced violent felon who has been shot or shot at before. Do you know for sure who has broken into your home? The selection of a firearm to investigate a bump in the night should mean that you have already decided that deadly force is an option. Intimidation should not be part of your plan. If you rely on intimidation it may very well mean that when it fails to work you will hesitate when you should not.

Before all the cops jump in and say "when I was on the street that sound was all it took to quell riots". I know that to be true. It's a whole different thing being a uniformed officer with a car full of blinky lights, a radio, a vest, backup on the way or already there, a batman utility belt full of crap with which to thump thugs, etc. Also, turds may assume that if you're the fuzz you are trained and ready to use whatever force is necessary to solve your problem. When someone breaks into your home and you rack your shotgun he may assume that you are a Recondeltasealrangerninja with a family of trained tier one operators ready to deal out death to anyone foolish enough to violate the sanctity of their home. He may think you're a 90 year old woman with her husbands 20 gauge bird gun full of rock salt who is hoping you'll run. He may be a real life BMF who has been in more gunfights than you can count on both hands and both feet that was hoping you'd let him know where you were so he could open a can of whoopass on you. Do you want to guess who it is?
 
I couldn't agree more Johnny. I am securely in your camp. Speed, surprise and violence of action are your friends. You are throwing all that out the window making a bunch of noise giving your position away.
 
Everyone thinks I should get a handgun...I think more because of the lack confidence in my abilities to shoot a larger gun. This just makes me want a larger gun even more. What I'm looking at though is what should be my first gun something to go to target practice and defend my home.
 
Yes, I was looking at a 500 or a 510 for the smaller length and lighter weight. To be perfectly honest though I don't know what I want. I am trying to gather more info to discover what I want. I am getting info from friends family and then of course forums(who are less biased).
 
Well, tell us a little more about the lack of confidence thing. Where is that coming from, what is the reason behind that? Are you lacking the confidence or is it others around you? How much shooting experience do you have? Are you comfortable handling firearms?
 
amkeeney said:
So that being said what is the best weapon to have that won't give away your position?
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That could be pretty much anything, including a pump gun. You don't have to keep it cruiser ready. You can keep it chambered and ready with the safety on.
The big issue here is the thought that just becuase you pump the shotgun any goblin will run away in terror. For some, absolutely. It has and will continue to work. For others, it won't work.
The problem in using it as some kind of part of your home defense strategy is that it relies on the person hearing it to actual hear it. That may sound like I'm stating the obvious but in larger homes, homes in noisy neighborhoods, or any number of other circumstances it may not be heard. Then the person hearing has to understand what it is, and must then be able to process what it is. Then goblin runs the cost/benefit on whether to leave or not, and if the homeowner is serious. Assuming everything has worked up to this point, now the goblin knows that there is someone else there, they are aware of his presence, and they are armed. So now he has to decided if the threat you pose is worth facing or not.
Again, I know this is the point where some leave. But this is also the point where some stay.
I know some say, "Well that sound would make me leave the house!" That's the same statement used by a lot of people that want to use birdshot or turkey loads or similar for defensive purposes. While that would be true for those individuals there is a breakdown in logic there: it doesn't matter what deters you, the rational person who is defensively postured. You're probably not chemically addicted. You're probably not poorly educated. You're probably not unemployed and looking to make your next buy. You're probably not improperly socialized. You're probably not mentally unbalanced. You're probably not an aggressive and violent person. You're probably not a person who has no regard for the legal system. You probably do not view the world as out to get you. You probably have a legitimate means to obtain your goals and desires. You may see no reason at all to enter someone else's home for the purpose of commiting a crime. You've done the analysis on the costs of violating the law and found that you have too much to lose if you're caught. They tend to not think they are going to get caught. These are all things that are actually fairly common to rampant in the criminogenic class. So what may be totally rational to you, may be completely lost on them. As such, you need to divorce yourself from the idea that they will act in completely rational and predictable patterns.
If someone wants to believe that making a sound is going to make every living person run away in terror, that's their problem. I have actually heard LEOs and gunshop counter guys tell people just to go buy a shotgun. You won't need to load it, just pump it and you'll scare anyone away. I disagree for the above reasons.
 
I keep mine loaded and set the safety on my 500A, so that I don't have to worry about the Big racka sound :mrgreen:
 
Rossignol said:
Well, tell us a little more about the lack of confidence thing. Where is that coming from, what is the reason behind that? Are you lacking the confidence or is it others around you? How much shooting experience do you have? Are you comfortable handling firearms?
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To answer your questions it is others around me lacking confidence. Most of all my husband. The only shooting experience I have is shooting a BB gun as a kid. Furthermore, I will become comfortable with handling firearms. ;) They don't scare me to hold them, I just need to get educated on stance, recoil, upkeep, etc. I am a fast learner and cannot wait to own my first gun. Which I have decided that it will be a 9mm to gain the element of surprise in home defense. Second gun will be a Mossberg shotgun, planning on turkey hunting first then moving on to deer. This brings about my third gun which will be rifle of unknown brand yet.
Anyway can't wait to get out there do some shooting and have some fun. :D
 
You can do anything you wanna do and theres no reason you cant handle a shotgun, there are so many options available to make the gun a better fit.

As far as the sound goes, you dont have to build up a head of steam to jack a shell into the chamber. It can be done carefully, slowly and deliberately.
 
amkeeney said:
Everyone thinks I should get a handgun...I think more because of the lack confidence in my abilities to shoot a larger gun. This just makes me want a larger gun even more. What I'm looking at though is what should be my first gun something to go to target practice and defend my home.
Click to expand...
I don't know how big you are but unless you are exceptionally small you should have no problems shooting a full sized 12 gauge pump shotgun that is properly set up and if you have some instruction in the correct way to hold it. Every type of gun has its plusses and minuses. The plus of a shotgun for defensive purposes is that it puts out a large amount of lead with each pull of the trigger. The plus of a long gun in general is that it provides a more stable shooting platform which allows more accurate fire than a handgun. Rifles and shotguns also are (generally) more reliable fight stoppers than handguns. The plus of a handgun is that it is portable and concealable. It is the weapon you can always have on your person when it would be inconvenient or inappropriate to have a long gun. If I were only going to have one firearm to defend myself it would most likely be a handgun so I could carry it away from home and have it available at home. If I were not to carry a gun outside the home (blasphemy!) and the firearm would only be for home defense I would choose a centerfire rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun.

Confidence comes with experience. Getting some qualified instruction and learning to use your weapon will start to give you confidence with it. Continued training and practice will increase your confidence.
 
If I were only going to have only a centerfire rifle for defensive purposes, it would be a carbine length rifle with maybe somesort of reflex sight and a light. Not really my area of deeper understanding and insight though.

On the subject of exceptionally small, my wife is 4'11" and can handle my 20" Persauder without any problem. The 14" Length of Pull is a bit long for her, but a 12" would be perfect. An 18" bbl. would help even further.
 
From an LEO standpoint... I do not teach the big racka sound. the weapon is always ready to go safety on. Modern teaching will never condone a move that will give the officers a disadvantage. Applied to Home defense same thing. your at home your home, if someone is worth pulling your gun on IN YOUR HOME they do not warrent a warning of anykind. ( I HAVE CASTLE DOCTRINE AVAILIBLE TO ME, YOUR LAWS MAY DIFFER). iF your not willing to pull the trigger in yYOUR DEFENSE right now, do not use a firearm to scare someone, criminals dont scare like that.
For example, If I heard noises at night IN my home and identified a intruder and then heard the "rack", I would put lead down range before the "ka"

To the fellow that lacked confidence, get your 500, practice and work the safty on your shoulder and off (GUN EMPTY AND POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION) Dry fir and work the slide 300 times a night for three nights. get about 3 bulk packs of upland/clay shells(300 rnds). go the the range over 2 weeks time, at the end of the 2 weeks you will be very confident.

get some cardboard and trace someone. get some 00 buck and some slugs. step of 25 ft. and pound away.

Start there. you'll be fine.
 
hunter72 said:
From an LEO standpoint... I do not teach the big racka sound. the weapon is always ready to go safety on. Modern teaching will never condone a move that will give the officers a disadvantage. Applied to Home defense same thing. your at home your home, if someone is worth pulling your gun on IN YOUR HOME they do not warrent a warning of anykind. ( I HAVE CASTLE DOCTRINE AVAILIBLE TO ME, YOUR LAWS MAY DIFFER). iF your not willing to pull the trigger in yYOUR DEFENSE right now, do not use a firearm to scare someone, criminals dont scare like that.
For example, If I heard noises at night IN my home and identified a intruder and then heard the "rack", I would put lead down range before the "ka"

To the fellow that lacked confidence, get your 500, practice and work the safty on your shoulder and off (GUN EMPTY AND POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION) Dry fir and work the slide 300 times a night for three nights. get about 3 bulk packs of upland/clay shells(300 rnds). go the the range over 2 weeks time, at the end of the 2 weeks you will be very confident.

get some cardboard and trace someone. get some 00 buck and some slugs. step of 25 ft. and pound away.

Start there. you'll be fine.
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You might also want to pattern the gun at ranges less than 25 feet so you understand the difference between what the buck will do at pretty much maximum indoor range (25 feet) and closer distances like 5, 10 or 15 feet.

My 930 SPX will put nearly all the pellets in a 2 3/4" 00 Buck round inside the head section of a life-size target at about 10 yards (distance from my bedroom door to my front door). YMMV
 
I keep my shotgun with a fully loaded mag tube, nothing in the chamber. I'll rack the gun to chamber a round immediately (my room is downstairs). If I have to move, Im already ready. I not going to rack the gun to "scare" the already bold intruder and give away my position.
 
All excellent points. Funny that I started thinking the "sound" will do some good. With my Glock, I would never give away my position, so why should I with my Persuader?
Right now, I have the Persuader close at hand at night without a chambered round. Considering my Glock, I started carrying without a round in the chamber until I got use to pulling it without blowing something off (about 60 days), and now always have that round ready to go - so why not in the shotgun too?
And come to think of it, pushing the safety off is a lot better than trying to rack a round that makes a sound and has the remote possibility to not cycle correctly. Another good discussion and a change of tactics here.
And as to handgun vs shotgun in the house? The Glock is my backup - nine .32 caliber vs one hollow-point is hard to beat.
 
I totally understand the stealth logic, but...

My situation isn't so clean cut. I have teenagers and a 2 story split ranch house. Master bedroom is on the top floor, the kids bedrooms are on the bottom floor. Teenagers like to do things they shouldn't. Like sneak out at night, have their friends, girlfriends, etc come over when they shouldn't be there. I could use a light but I think even flashing it for a split second will give my position away more than racking the slide. I definitely would not rely just on the sound of racking the slide to scare someone away but I think it can be helpful.

I think it could help me distinguish between a BG and my kids or their friends. I can imagine myself in the dark and I know someone is in the house but I don't know who it is. I think by racking the slide 5 things may happen; 1) They started screaming at me because it is someone my kids know. 2) They haul ass. 3) They don't do anything. 4) They run straight for me. 5)They start shooting at me.

So if 1 or 2 happen. Problem taken care of. If 3 happens at that time I will have one in the chamber and be pointed where I think they are. I'll use a light to see who it is and act according to what I can see. If 4 or 5 happens well I hope my reflexes are as good as they used to be. For 5, they may have the first shot but I won't be in the same place I was.

I know it puts me in a disadvantage in situations 3, 4 and 5 but I can't assume that just because someone is in my house they are there to hurt me. That will of course change after my kids move out.

And then there is the wild card. My 110lb black German Shepperd with a bad attitude that you can't see unless she's smiling. She can be helpful to id members of my family but maybe not their friends so much. She can help with 1, 2, 3 and 4 above.

So my point is, the racking of the slide can be helpful given the right circumstances. If anyone thinks differently I would like to hear their opinions to my situation. I know it isn't perfect and I am always looking for a better plan.
 
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