Decisions on a HD shotgun
- Thread starter JSM
- Start date
I haven't looked at them too hard but the DPMS, Core 15, and windham are the ones without the front sight. I did a tiny bit of reading on the DPMS and heard that you have to work on it to make it work... windham I really like only because of the carbon fiber aspect but don't think I will go for it because of that and I don't know anything about the Core 15.
While the carbon and other polymer lowers have been around a while, I will have to admit that I feel a lot better about standard 7075 aluminum receivers.
Any of them can have no front sights. That is commonly referred to as a railed gas block, or low profile gas block. Or the ones with a front sight are called "front sight base" (or FSB). Interchanging parts are one of the reasons why AR's are the U.S.' best selling guns.
Well, that, and you can change calibers from mild to wild by a simple upper and bolt and magazine swap to probably 20 different calibers ranging from 17 HMR and 22LR all the way up to the 50 Beowulf which is similar to ballistics as the venerable 45-70 and will let you use the one lower to be able to hunt virtually anything on the North American Continent.
Any of them can have no front sights. That is commonly referred to as a railed gas block, or low profile gas block. Or the ones with a front sight are called "front sight base" (or FSB). Interchanging parts are one of the reasons why AR's are the U.S.' best selling guns.
Well, that, and you can change calibers from mild to wild by a simple upper and bolt and magazine swap to probably 20 different calibers ranging from 17 HMR and 22LR all the way up to the 50 Beowulf which is similar to ballistics as the venerable 45-70 and will let you use the one lower to be able to hunt virtually anything on the North American Continent.
I have a Core 15 lower part kit in my rifle and I think it was a step up from the average milspec as far as the fire control group part of it.
The sear faces were baby skin smooth and not at all remotely rough, it has a very smooth trigger , others I have seen since have tooling marks, nicks and things that confirmed to me the Core 15 group was a little nicer..... and coming from me that's good because I am OCD about triggers.
I would buy a rifle from them without a second thought.
Thing with AR's mostly all the same specs , so much so that you can take a PSA bolt, put it in a Rock River carrier and put that in a Noveske upper, put that upper on a Bushmaster lower and shoot 1 MOA. Where some of the differences come into play is materials used, some companies skimp as I found out along the way. Pay attention to the materials used in the parts you buy, it makes a difference in longevity of function.....depending on how you treat your rifle and how much you shoot it.
You say now you might go shoot every now and then earlier in this thread, that will change, especially if you get and AR....especially especially if you build your own.
The sear faces were baby skin smooth and not at all remotely rough, it has a very smooth trigger , others I have seen since have tooling marks, nicks and things that confirmed to me the Core 15 group was a little nicer..... and coming from me that's good because I am OCD about triggers.
I would buy a rifle from them without a second thought.
Thing with AR's mostly all the same specs , so much so that you can take a PSA bolt, put it in a Rock River carrier and put that in a Noveske upper, put that upper on a Bushmaster lower and shoot 1 MOA. Where some of the differences come into play is materials used, some companies skimp as I found out along the way. Pay attention to the materials used in the parts you buy, it makes a difference in longevity of function.....depending on how you treat your rifle and how much you shoot it.
You say now you might go shoot every now and then earlier in this thread, that will change, especially if you get and AR....especially especially if you build your own.
Well if I get one instead of the Mossberg it would be the Core 15, I see good reviews other than the 55 65gr problems and steel ammo issues. DPMS reviews is enough to give me a red flag with enough people saying they wouldn't trust their life to it and wouldn't suggest it and needing to do work to it once you get it.....
I'll keep my eyes open to see if I can find an upper that is optics ready that wouldn't cost as much as a pre assembled AR but in the time being I'm still thinking 500 or AR, kind of leaning towards the 500 to be honest because it was pointed out to me in one video "I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier" is that a shell can hold 9 projectiles about the same size as a .223 or 5.56 "not sure which one it was" and in one blast it will do as much as 9 blasts from an AR, 8 rounds times 9 projectiles is 72 shots from an AR and 8 from a shotgun, someone said they could load 2-3 rounds in the same time it would take to put in a new mag so if you put the math this way 8 shells = 2 mags and almost a half so that is about 5 new shells which is 45 more shots for the AR which is 1 mag and a half and you get down to the 2-3 shell eventually which is still 27 shots from an AR. So that is the roll that is playing in my head right now but I have to also keep in mind of the ammo going through walls including in an apartment.
I'll keep my eyes open to see if I can find an upper that is optics ready that wouldn't cost as much as a pre assembled AR but in the time being I'm still thinking 500 or AR, kind of leaning towards the 500 to be honest because it was pointed out to me in one video "I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier" is that a shell can hold 9 projectiles about the same size as a .223 or 5.56 "not sure which one it was" and in one blast it will do as much as 9 blasts from an AR, 8 rounds times 9 projectiles is 72 shots from an AR and 8 from a shotgun, someone said they could load 2-3 rounds in the same time it would take to put in a new mag so if you put the math this way 8 shells = 2 mags and almost a half so that is about 5 new shells which is 45 more shots for the AR which is 1 mag and a half and you get down to the 2-3 shell eventually which is still 27 shots from an AR. So that is the roll that is playing in my head right now but I have to also keep in mind of the ammo going through walls including in an apartment.
There could be a lot debated in your last post. Mostly all that talk about the math and how many rounds a shotgun holds is just not "real world".
True that double ought buck is larger than a 5.56 and has 8 or 9 pellets each shot which are .33 caliber. (Most AR's shoot .224" diameter bullet).
But that's about where your comparison really ends.
Up close, a shotgun is unrivaled and potentially devastating in the close quarters defense. Likely even moreso than an AR.
But recoil and the ability to stay on target is a lot better with the AR probably especially if you're shooting at different or multiple targets or shooting on the move.
While I understand what you are saying about putting a wad of double ought buck on a target is simply offensive, but that's not to say that an AR is useless either.
I'm not going to get into the comparisons of terminal ballistics and wound channels between a 5.56 traveling at 3200 fps and fragmenting into oblivion compared to nine 33 caliber bullets traveling at 1200 feet per second.
My humble two cents, either would ruin an otherwise great day.
And contrary to a lot of internet urban myths, 223 penetrates walls quite readily. Especially SS109's and Hornady 60 gr "barrier" TAP rounds.
I remember seeing one photo during the boston bomber engagements of a bullet hole that went through an exterior wall, through a calendar hanging on the wall, and through the office chair sitting beside the desk.
And guessing from the angle of the street in front of the house, that bullet hole was probably caused by a ricochet after it had already hit something hard anyway before striking the house.
True that double ought buck is larger than a 5.56 and has 8 or 9 pellets each shot which are .33 caliber. (Most AR's shoot .224" diameter bullet).
But that's about where your comparison really ends.
Up close, a shotgun is unrivaled and potentially devastating in the close quarters defense. Likely even moreso than an AR.
But recoil and the ability to stay on target is a lot better with the AR probably especially if you're shooting at different or multiple targets or shooting on the move.
While I understand what you are saying about putting a wad of double ought buck on a target is simply offensive, but that's not to say that an AR is useless either.
I'm not going to get into the comparisons of terminal ballistics and wound channels between a 5.56 traveling at 3200 fps and fragmenting into oblivion compared to nine 33 caliber bullets traveling at 1200 feet per second.
My humble two cents, either would ruin an otherwise great day.
And contrary to a lot of internet urban myths, 223 penetrates walls quite readily. Especially SS109's and Hornady 60 gr "barrier" TAP rounds.
I remember seeing one photo during the boston bomber engagements of a bullet hole that went through an exterior wall, through a calendar hanging on the wall, and through the office chair sitting beside the desk.
And guessing from the angle of the street in front of the house, that bullet hole was probably caused by a ricochet after it had already hit something hard anyway before striking the house.
yeah JA...good post .
JSM, just so we are clear I'm not talking out of your original thoughts of getting a shotgun. I was just showing you how obtainable an AR can be. There are far more happy DPMS owners then unhappy ones. Problem with the internet is that its one huge bitch fest usually. You always hear about the bad side of everything
JSM, just so we are clear I'm not talking out of your original thoughts of getting a shotgun. I was just showing you how obtainable an AR can be. There are far more happy DPMS owners then unhappy ones. Problem with the internet is that its one huge bitch fest usually. You always hear about the bad side of everything
Usually you hear more bad than good since the poed people are more likely to voice their time with something and I didn't take your help as talking me out of a shotgun, it's just how I work which is to get the best thing possible within spendable cash range and when it comes down to two things that have just about the same amount of pros and cons it just puts me all over the place because I want the correct answer when there really isn't one, if money wasn't an issue I would just get both but since it is I can only get one and that would be it for a good long while because I have other things to invest in....
JSM said:
I'm going to assume that you've taken other "defense-in-depth" measures as much as is practical in an apartment. Alarm, etc. So, I'll just throw in another variable in the soup.
Body armor. Not on you, but being worn by an intruder. The stuff is getting pretty popular, and is readily available. The point here is that level IIIA soft armor will stop 12gage 00buck. It would hurt, but would not stop an intruder. Since you won't know if the intruder is wearing armor or not, that means if you confront with a shotgun or pistol (even a .44mag) you'll need to aim for an unprotected area - head or groin - which is a much smaller target than center mass. If you confront with a rifle, even a AR, it will penetrate IIIA, so now you can aim center mass. The 3rd option is a bayonet or similar which will also penetrate soft armor, but has it's own set of downsides. Fun, huh
Bottom line: You go to war with the weapons you have, not the ones you wish you had.
Yea I took that into consideration too and I plan on getting alarms as well and hope that would make them run off and whatever else I can set up so they will go away instead of me having to use a gun the community is also a closed gate one but still doesn't mean things can't happen, of course I hope to never have to shoot someone but I will if I have to and I did read something not to long ago saying criminals are starting to wear body armor, should probably buy some of that too and hang it with the gun just in case.
I may have just found my shotgun, now remember I'm young and I've been playing video games since the early 90s and this is more of mixing my passion for video games with guns. The only thing that I am trying to figure out is if this actually comes with a sling or not, Mossberg doesn't mention it unless you get the chainsaw version but someone in the review section in this link says it comes with one and being 10 dollars more than the 500SP and it comes with the nice engraving and if it comes with a sling and hardware than it is a no brainer.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/79786
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/79786
As long as it's not the chainsaw or pistol grip only versions... I'm down with a ZMB engraved one
Well I called Mossberg themself and the lady I talked to could not tell me if it came with one or not, she just said that she doesn't know and that was it. I called Centerfire and the lady I talked to tried to figure it out and help me by looking at other sites and pictures and etc and it came down to her saying usually if it doesn't say it does than it usually doesn't but I'm glad I called because I would say Centerfire has a customer. but sucks that it doesn't come with a sling "or I would say it doesn't since none of the sites confirm except the pictures which you can't always go off of so I don't think I'll waste 10 on the ZMB version just for the engrave part... maybe if the engraving was more defined I would.
but sucks that it doesn't come with a sling "or I would say it doesn't since none of the sites confirm except the pictures which you can't always go off of so I don't think I'll waste 10 on the ZMB version just for the engrave part... maybe if the engraving was more defined I would.
aksavanaman said:As long as it's not the chainsaw or pistol grip only versions... I'm down with a ZMB engraved one
This old dinosaur isn't impressed by decorations. And "ZMB" on a shotgun isn't going to stop an intruder, unless he falls down laughing. Imho, the best home defense shotty ever produced was the Winchester Model 12 trench gun with the so called 'slam fire' action. I know where I can buy one locally, and one of these days I'm gonna. :mrgreen:
The old Ithaca trench guns would also fire as long as you pumped a live round in the chamber and were holding the trigger back too
The Mossberg 500C Bantam that my Mom bought a while back did NOT have a sling, nor have I ever seen a new factory 500 come with one.
The Mossberg 500C Bantam that my Mom bought a while back did NOT have a sling, nor have I ever seen a new factory 500 come with one.
It's all about the detail, how someones gun is setup is a reflection back on that person. Like I said I would be getting it because it puts guns and video games in a way together. I'm not really a fan on it being a bright green, if it was my choice I would have gone with a flat black to be subtle. if I didn't know it was an engraving I would have thought it was a sticker, to be honest with you the more and more I look at it I think it is only painted on there and the only engraving on it is the Mossberg 500 above the ZMB logo....
The tricked out version of the ZMB comes with a sling and other stuff but I'm not wanting all that. lol
Like I said I would be getting it because it puts guns and video games in a way together. I'm not really a fan on it being a bright green, if it was my choice I would have gone with a flat black to be subtle. if I didn't know it was an engraving I would have thought it was a sticker, to be honest with you the more and more I look at it I think it is only painted on there and the only engraving on it is the Mossberg 500 above the ZMB logo....The tricked out version of the ZMB comes with a sling and other stuff but I'm not wanting all that. lol
