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Need advice

Lol, sorry guys. I understand. I just thought the thread got a little off focus (helping Vinny), but you guys did bring some valuable information. I agree with 12 pump: Vinny did leave it a little open ended. Oh, well, no harm done...no need to necromance this and accept my apology. Still the ole' copper BB; doesn't buck the wind too well.
 
I think this is a great thread. I'm a new HD shotgun owner and I've been thinking about this issue. For now I'm going to start at the beginning- buy lots of ammo and practice.
Thanks for saying that and I think you have a clear head on your shoulders, Dave. What we've been discussing here is not ground-breaking and is argued over in many places. But not everyone is up on the options for low-light conditions so we might as well share our thoughts and, whatever the tool, I think it bears repeating that practice and familiarization come first, long before the hardware enhancements. Once you encounter a situation where your setup is lacking (hopefully during training/practice!) you'll know exactly what you need.

Rossignol's clip gives a good idea of what to expect when indoors with a firearm and a light, and that's the basis for my own resistance to using anything else. The sights are very visible and appear black, unless they are made of a high-visibility material in which case they may become blindingly bright (it depends on the distance from the light source too). The guys who train extensively in low-light are typically adamant that tritium and/or laser are a must and I can't argue because I don't train extensively. My own experience, which is not negligible (armed private security for the past 15 years, often at night and at large estates, which routinely requires me to clear yards and buildings) tells me that the cases when night sights would be a plus are few and often limited to law enforcement tactics (more offensive by nature). For me and most people (I suspect) it will be more like: perceive a potential threat, ID with light, be aware of your front sight and shoot (or not).

I've installed tritium sights on a 1911 before (because I was told it was a must-have and I didn't know any better) and didn't like having to send my slide out or watching the tritium go bad within just a few years. They talk about 10 years, but after 4-5 they looked much dimmer to me. And my Dan Wesson came from the factory with a dead front sight (now painted over). All this would be acceptable to me if I felt that the advantage provided was decisive (after all, I replace the batteries in my SureFires all the time, but those are critical tools), but I don't and have been returning to old school tricks such as a gold bead or sight paint.

Again, this is not about trying to convince anyone, just to provide perspective for those on the fence. Since taking a point shooting (handgun) class I've been a firm believer in sighted fire, even at close range, but it's a flash picture not a careful alignment. That's why I like beads so much and as long as I can see them...

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My vote is no laser on a shotgun.

Light, yes.

Even mandantory if you are going to use it after hours on a HD/SD gun or anywhere that may be low light.

I have had a saying for many years that has proven to be true year after year in regards to a flashlight and a shotgun.

If it's lit, it's hit.

Twelve Pump, if a light is positioned correctly, there will be enough reflection on the bead that it is 10x brighter than night sights.

You'll have to fast forward the video to about 3:30 be able to see the reflection on the bead, but it is what I am pointing out.


*Also, I just have to say that your picture is un-nerving.
 
Twelve Pump, if a light is positioned correctly, there will be enough reflection on the bead that it is 10x brighter than night sights.
Agreed: my photo sucks, but you can still see how bright my bead is on the pic in post # 11. The argument people may then raise is: what if your light goes down? The night sights would be a backup. I'm still convinced that I should always see downrange and ID targets before worrying about seeing my sights, and that if I can see downrange I'll likely see the sights too. I realize it's not that clear-cut, but on the job I have a handgun and another light on my belt so there's my backups. And there's guns and lights placed throughout my home too.
*Also, I just have to say that your picture is un-nerving.
That zombie pic above? It's a screen grab from Rossignol's video and I'm sure it was meant that way! ;) I selected it because it showed well the outline of barrel and bead for those worried about aiming in the dark. It kinda matched my own pic, except that in mine the undead was a palm tree. :D
 
In a perfect world, I agree that if you can't ID the target and what is beyond, seeing your sights would also be out of the question.

No one can guarantee that a light wouldn't go down at the worst possible time, but with todays LED lights, is better than in years past.

Yes, that was the un-nerving picture.

I preferred the palm tree.
 
Yeah, I can't say that I stress over that kinda thing myself (the light failure), but I know some people do. Murphy knows where I live and is always looking over my shoulder, but there's a point past which you gotta stop worrying. Things fail? Go to plan B immediately, change underwear later. :)
 
Shotguns are a point and shoot weapon. You don't need to aim it like a rifle unless you're shooting slugs. But I'm sure some folks put one on anyway. Your call.
With all due respect sir, I beg to differ. You absolutely NEED to aim a shotgun, just like any other firearm.
 
With all due respect sir, I beg to differ. You absolutely NEED to aim a shotgun, just like any other firearm.

I'm guessing here and I could be wrong;
OA shoots/has shot competition with a shotgun. It's my belief that in some cases aiming becomes "pointing". Point at the target, pull the trigger, and move to the next target.

In my particular circumstances especially given that turkey season is upon us, we are hunting with a 10" pattern to 40 and 50 yards possibly. At 25 yards every pellet is in a 10" circle. My 835 has a 3 dot sight set on it and is aimed for that one shot. I'm still learning too and I can see where things would be different in other circumstances.
 
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You don't aim a shotgun like a rifle. When shooting at birds, animals, skeet, trap or other moving targets there is no "aiming". You sweep the target. If you aim AT the target you are going to miss. Sure, if the target is stationary aiming is required to a certain degree but you can hit a target just the same when shooting from the hip. Turkey hunting requires aiming but with some of the tight chokes available and the small size of a turkey's head you need to focus on a relatively small area like Rossignol stated. Slugs are just a big, slow rifle round.
 
Both of you "OhioArcher and Rossignol" make good points. But I run rifled slugs most times along with a red dot optic, so I do AIM, and get good results out to 50 yards. This target was shot at 30 yards. I like this particular shotgun to shoot like a rifle, and it does the job quite nicely. It also patterns well with buckshot.

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I think that this is saying tow-may-tow, tow-ma-tow.

I don't think anyone here has advocated to just point and shoot wildly with total disregard all willy-nilly.

And the way I see it, there are different techniques for different applications where a shotgun is concerned. Even "sweeping", to me, is still a form of aiming, and even required to do for some things as has been said, and even as you have pointed out, would be derogatory at other times.

The important thing to know is when it is appropriate to incorporate the appropriate method and shot selection.

I would never try to use slugs while hunting pheasant and I would never use bird shot for deer.

But for each thing you use it for, require different methods entirely.

 
Great points all around.

My $.02.

For HD purposes at HD distances using #4 or 00 buck, aiming is still critical. The patterns much of the dedicated HD ammo put up on target, especially shells with flight control or similar, make some pretty small holes on target. At ten yards and closer, not aiming can result in a big miss when the stakes are life or death.

Like has been said above, the application and circumstances are key. Know your weapon, know your ammo, know your target, and what is behind it...
 
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