.30-30 my latest reloads, and the state of the economy

[hombre243]

I am not positive but i don't think so on the mod, bushing style is all I ever heard .....I think if there was an easy mod they wouldn't be able to sell the neck sizer

That would suck to stick a round, I think as you reach the end of the cases life that might be an issue, might not. As you use the brass , it hardens, loses memory and might fail to release from the chamber.
Usually the brass cracks before that and you cull it with full length

One way to save brass is to anneal it. The shoulder is where most of the problems occur. Annealing softens brittle brass and lengthens case life expectancy. You Tube vids illustrate how it is done. One guy uses a cordless drill, a spark plug socket or whatever fits best to the size case head you have, and an extension that will fit the socket and the drill. The process involves turning the case at slow rpms and heating with a bernz o matic or similar torch, to the point just at the temp where the color changes to red, then dumping the case into water. It is supposed to extend the case life quite a bit.

 

[sullivan]

One question: I don't have the neck sizing die for a 30-30. Can the regular sizing die be set to do the neck only? How? By just not screwing the die in to the press so far?

You would hope that you would get a warning in the form of extraction becoming more difficult, rather than suddenly getting a case Stuck right out of the blue. That is how it was with my bolt action. I used to collet size the necks and when bolt lift became noticeably stiffer, it was time to bump die the shoulder.

Whether you would be able to extract the NS case (after say, three or four reloads) with a lever, is something I have no experience with.
Good Luck

 

[oli700]

One way to save brass is to anneal it. The shoulder is where most of the problems occur. Annealing softens brittle brass and lengthens case life expectancy. You Tube vids illustrate how it is done. One guy uses a cordless drill, a spark plug socket or whatever fits best to the size case head you have, and an extension that will fit the socket and the drill. The process involves turning the case at slow rpms and heating with a bernz o matic or similar torch, to the point just at the temp where the color changes to red, then dumping the case into water. It is supposed to extend the case life quite a bit.

thats a cool process, reminds me how we used to anneal the ass end of firing pins after we sent them out to hardening

all my high volume brass is annealed once . probably get about 10 or so out of a case . I just wait for them to crack then I toss them......I run all my AR brass till it fail lol....don't even keep track of times loaded ...got about 3 or 4 K tumbled once fired sitting around so they are plentiful

My bolt guns I dont shoot enough to worry about and my lever actions , well I have reloaded for those at all now that I think about it.

 

[hombre243]

I would listen to Lee.....I have an old Savage bolt 30-30.....cool old gun

One other thing I don't think I mentioned is that a bolt action has a cam like action that helps to break a case free and also can force in to the chamber a slightly tight case/cartridge. Slightly. No other action has that power. I think that is why neck sizing is not recommended. No one says you cannot do it but it requires much more than Preparation H for this PITA.

 

[hombre243]

I have recently taken the scope off my 464 SPX and installed a Williams FP receiver sight. I really like the FP receiver sight, now all I need is the Lyman target front sight...
I was shooting my reloads, but this time a 150gr Sierra flat nose with 29gr of H4895. I'm going back to my usual Speer bullets, but I ran out..

I used to buy Remington 150gr Core-Lokt, and got into reloading because it was cheaper, but now I can't even buy .30-30 in Academy or Walmart if I wanted to. I have heard that there is such a demand that ammo makers are only making the more popular cartridges. I guess .30-30 is not popular enough...

The bottom line is, I'm happy with my Mossberg 464 SPX, reloading and my shooting, what else is there?

I looked all over the inside of my folders and for a hard copy for the data and the only target I can find for my Marlin 3030 is one 100 yd target I saved for an online match. I am posting that picture here. It is a 3" spot off a Splatter target that had an 8" center target and 4 corner 3" targets. I used a flat nosed Sierra and a charge of IMR 3031.*** But I do not have the charge weight. Sorry. It was not a hot load and it came from a Lee 2nd Edition Manual. Revised.

I fired some groups from my Savage 11 V/T .308 that day also and the Marlin 3030 actually shot a tighter group. Had to be me, but it is nice to know the good ol thutty thutty can hold it's own.

*** I posted in the 464 Loads thread and now I realize that data was correct. I didn't use IMR 3031 as posted here. I had found the data sheet when I posted the first time. I used Hodgden LVR powder. The recipes are listed back in the other thread. Here is the link to the load data: http://www.mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/464-30-30-loads.14269/
http://www.mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/464-30-30-loads.14269/



Hope I can post some targets from my Mossy 464 that are as good as the Marlin. Also, I will keep a good record of the load data and chrono results when I get that done.

I am fighting some kind of creepin crud on my leg. Doc says stay off it so I am homebound a few more days. Itches worse than stinging nettle.

 

[oli700]

One other thing I don't think I mentioned is that a bolt action has a cam like action that helps to break a case free and also can force in to the chamber a slightly tight case/cartridge. Slightly. No other action has that power. I think that is why neck sizing is not recommended. No one says you cannot do it but it requires much more than Preparation H for this PITA.

thanks man , I really appreciate learning along the way.
The little nuggets of knowledge that separate the novice from the veteran .......that's just what I'm after....and really isn't neck sizing like a benchrest shooter move ?....striving for extreme accuracy. I understand case life aspect but I like the idea from an accuracy standpoint

 

[nitesite]

I have a Mossberg 464 Lever Action 30-30. Really like the gun and it shoots very well. When I first got it, went to the range and tried to sight in @ 50 yards. I was out of rear sight adjustment and still 14 inches low. Called Mossberg and sent it back. When it came back, to my surprise they put a set of Williams sights front and rear. Really shoots well with the Williams and I like that type of open sights. Just loaded 200 rounds of 30-30, Sierra Gameking 150 grain with 33 grains of H-4064. Groups very well in my gun.

I guess a Mossberg lever gun can be fairly enticing.

 

[sullivan]

..and really isn't neck sizing like a benchrest shooter move ?....

Not necessarily. We are talking about using a FLS die here but benchresters, F-Class Open shooters etc., all use bushings to neck size. That is after they turn the necks etc., etc., etc
It is all too Hard Core for this old man but good luck to those people, they Love it
If interested, see benchrest.com

It would be really interesting to see how much better NS ammo shot out of someone's 464, compared to the FLS stuff. I should confess up front that I am skeptical. As for the life of the brass, I have no idea. A lot of people have gotten a lot of shots out of FLS ammo but who is to say how hot their loads were?

 

[hombre243]

Not necessarily. We are talking about using a FLS die here but benchresters, F-Class Open shooters etc., all use bushings to neck size. That is after they turn the necks etc., etc., etc
It is all too Hard Core for this old man but good luck to those people, they Love it
If interested, see benchrest.com

It would be really interesting to see how much better NS ammo shot out of someone's 464, compared to the FLS stuff. I should confess up front that I am skeptical. As for the life of the brass, I have no idea. A lot of people have gotten a lot of shots out of FLS ammo but who is to say how hot their loads were?

I am always reading something. Too bad I cannot remember where I read most of what I do read. I save links and articles but somehow they get buried and I cannot find the info later. But I have read some about bench rest shooters and one remark was made by a writer was something like, ...if you think neck sizing will have no effect on your accuracy then ask a benchrest shooter...There are other writers who are straddling the fence and their caveat is...whatever trips your trigger. They neither support it nor speak against it.

I have a question here now: I have not heard of bushings for sizing necks. What is that? Is bushings another name for neck sizing collet type dies?

I did some looking. Here is a short article. I learn something every day:
http://www.massreloading.com/rifle_neck_sizing.html

I have necksized my 308 win ammo and that works pretty well. I cannot say it has made a marked improvement in the group size. I necksize to help preserve the brass. I read a lot from many sources and necksizing is not actually recommended by some writers. Some think it is a waste of time and see no benefit. Even if a case is to always be fired in the same gun they say full length sizing is always best. I think it is a choice. But I do believe that neck sizing will assure a longer case life, as will annealing the case shoulder area after several firings.

I load for hunting accuracy. I get some sub moa groups but mostly I shoot very close to moa. Some a little higher and occasionally a bit lower than moa. If I can place 3-5, but especially the first shot from a cold barrel, into a 3" target at 100 yds I can drop any animal I am likely to hunt. My rimfires fire dime sized or smaller groups at 50 yards. Perfect for squirrels and small game.

I think I will fire a few 30-30s this weekend if I can get to the range and when I size them I will only screw the die in part way and experiment with neck sizing. I will see how an unloaded neck sized case works in my rifle. If they chamber easy I will load a few and try them. But I am betting that ol Murph will be in the neighborhood and my luck will prove that I need to FL resize.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Well they won't run at all unless you put/leave a primer in them They hang up when you try to cycle.

 

[hombre243]

Well they won't run at all unless you put/leave a primer in them They hang up when you try to cycle.

That has not been my experience. I run a few cartridges through whatever rifle I am loading for. Even primerless cases work just fine. You should get your rifle checked.

***4/8/16
I see what you are saying about primerless cases not working well. When I cycle primerless cases through I only do 3-4 at a time and they seem to work. I didn't have dummy rounds per se. I sometimes cycle plain empty bullet less brass and they work ok. I don't have a bullet set in the mouth when I try them but I do have a safe area where I can run a few loaded rounds through for function testing. Those have primers of course.

have limited funds and soon I hope to order some factory dummies. I have them for the Mosin, 308 and .223. I just have not gotten them for the 30-30 mainly because I sold my last rifle and had so much stuff left over for loading, as well as loaded rounds that I couldn't get rid of and loading dies, I just had to have another 3030 rather than junking the other stuff...which really amounted to about 2/3 the cost of a new rifle. I didn't get around to ordering dummies because I was the dummy and sold the rifle.

Besides, everyone needs a 30-30 lever gun and I like the Mossy 464 better than the Marlin.

Oh, also, I don't push the cartridges in with another cartridge. I did not realize at first that is what you were referring to. I always just thumb them in and tear off thumb flesh and nails. I will try it the way you do and the way the manual says to shove them in. (do I lose my man card because I read the owners instruction manual? Or do I lose it because I admitted reading it?)

 

[CaddmannQ]

it's the Mossberg .30-30 that won't take them. They hang when loading the tube, because without a primer the second round doesn't push the first one in at the right angle.

 

[CaddmannQ]

By the way I was very interested to read the instructions for annealing brass because I've never done it before.

When annealing steel you never quench in water, but cool as slowly as possible, using insulation or hot sand to keep it hot a long time.

 

[hombre243]

it's the Mossberg .30-30 that won't take them. They hang when loading the tube, because without a primer the second round doesn't push the first one in at the right angle.

I will give it a try. I lived in Missouri for a few years. It rubbed off.

 

[CaddmannQ]

All Engineers are skeptical.
It's an occupational hazard.
I have to experiment with things all the time to satisfy myself about what does and doesn't work and why.

By the way, trying to cycle my dummy rounds without a primer or powder in them, they would get gouged by the loading port cover and just stick right there.

It's possible yours could work if the cover is a little bit different.

 

[hombre243]

By the way I was very interested to read the instructions for annealing brass because I've never done it before.

When annealing steel you never quench in water, but cool as slowly as possible, using insulation or hot sand to keep it hot a long time.

There are machines you can buy for 6-700 bucks. The guy who did the video figured out how to rig up a tool costing a whole lot less. Here is the You Tube Page:

 

[oli700]

when we annealed firing pins they always went into a bucket of coolant after the reached temp .....by 100's

 

[hombre243]

when we annealed firing pins they always went into a bucket of coolant after the reached temp .....by 100's

I bet you were hardening pins, right, as in case hardening? Annealing the brass softens it.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I thought there'd be something electric like a soldering iron or an easy bake oven.

Is that the $600 thing?

 

[hombre243]

it's the Mossberg .30-30 that won't take them. They hang when loading the tube, because without a primer the second round doesn't push the first one in at the right angle.

What bullets are you using? I want to try some polymer tips. I have been using the round nose or flat nosed 150s and i have some Xtreme flat nosed plated bullets I have only shot a few of. I can for sure imagine a polymer tip snuggling into a primer pocket.