• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

.30-30 my latest reloads, and the state of the economy

Yes, they explain it in the article sort of.

It also hardens from shooting it.

I'm really surprised all the annealers are propane fired, and not electric.
 
CaddmannQ said:
Yes, they explain it in the article sort of.

It also hardens from shooting it.

I'm really surprised all the annealers are propane fired, and not electric.
Click to expand...

Doesn't really matter how it hardens, as long as we know how to soften it back up a little. That is what the article is about. I would guess that if they use a propane torch it is because it is easier and cheaper to use something that is on hand rather than try to invent something new. I am going to try my heat gun. It has a 700 deg switch and a 900 deg switch. If that doesn't work, I will get out the Bernz o Matic. I have 2 of those. I also always buy the Coleman or other brand bottle of propane. I couldn't find any electric camping gear. :D
 
On the subject of vertical stringing, my rifle does this too. Yesterday I gripped the fore end while leaning the back of my hand against the rest, while pulling the butt in to my shoulder. The butt rested on a rear bag as usual. Did no good at all; about 6" of vertical. On previous visits to the range, I had put the fore end in the cradle of the rest and left it untouched while firing. That has been my practice with all my bolt guns. One of those used to jump out of the cradle in recoil but groups were under MOA.
 
sullivan said:
On the subject of vertical stringing, my rifle does this too. Yesterday I gripped the fore end while leaning the back of my hand against the rest, while pulling the butt in to my shoulder. The butt rested on a rear bag as usual. Did no good at all; about 6" of vertical. On previous visits to the range, I had put the fore end in the cradle of the rest and left it untouched while firing. That has been my practice with all my bolt guns. One of those used to jump out of the cradle in recoil but groups were under MOA.
Click to expand...

I emailed Mossberg Technical support to see if they have any answers. The review articles I have read all tout the accuracy of the rifle. None mentioned vertical stringing. There has to be a reason. Next I will try to contact the writers who have such good luck.
 
sullivan said:
I look forward to your results, hombre. I am playing catch up with this rifle:confused:
Click to expand...

Rifles are not supposed to do this. I have never had one that did, so, because I am hearing about more than mine having accuracy problems, it just seems to me that I/we need to try to find out why. I am frustrated. The only advice I have got from Brand snobs is "you get what you pay for." But, I have no reason to believe a rifle that costs less than 20 bucks less than that snobs other brand name gun strings its shots just because of the cost. Right?

I will be trying everything I can think of. One thing I know for sure...the first day I shot it I had good groups after the barrel warmed up but had to slow down before it got too hot. The second tome I went out with it, it shot 2-3 good shots and heated up very quickly. The first day was low 40s out. The second time was high 60s. There was a big difference in how the rifle shot. But, the best group I shot was with plated bullets shooting at low velocities, guestimated to be around 1500-1600 fps. Low vel, low pressure, low heat, longer string. Those 6 shots were the first 6 shots in a longer string. I am thinking a full 10. But the rifle needed to be aimed high because I am sighted in for 100 yds, using 125 gr and 150 gr bullets. The 125sw shot an inch or an inch and a half lower than the 150s. The 150s, on the day I set the sights were shooting bulls. Those targets were posted in another thread, or in previous posts in this thread.

I had to find where to aim, about 4-5 inches higher than the little bull down at 6:00 so I could finally see how the bullets would group. the first 4 were below the 6:00 spot. When I hit the first bullseye I aimed at the same spot and got a 6 banger. Then I went home. Out of ammo.

I didn't buy the rifle to use heavy bullets that run just a bit faster than a 22. But, if that is what it comes down to it may be all I will get unless I send the gun in. I hate the idea of that. The other thing is that these are new guns and may need an extended break in. It does not make a lot of sense but it is possible. Stay tuned for later developments. Same place, same time, same channel.

One thing bugs me: On the 6mm BR site the gun guru there says there are many reasons for stringing. Some we have mentioned here. Other reasons have to do with mechanical parts of the rifle, like a cockeyed firing pin of all things. I still think it has to do with heat, but possibly stock and tube fit aggravated by heat. Possibly balance of the gun but now that you said you experimented with the placement i am switching gears a little. Have you ever shot a spring air pellet gun? They are a whole different breed of cat. I am wondering if this rifle has similar characteristics. It has to be fired pretty much offhand with very little constriction. I sure hope that is not the case. They call me Shaky Jake for a reason.

More later.
h

Looks like it is now later...

http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

http://www.realguns.com/articles/346.htm
 
Last edited:
At this point I do not know if this matters but I will have to shoot first and see if it matters. I found the balance points of the 464 with and without accessories, scope, etc. Here are the pics of my rifle from the factory, and as it is now. The red arrows shot balance points. I know I did not have the rifle all the way back on the rearmost balance point. If it stops raining I will see how the rifle reacts to different resting points.

464 Full Dress_Balance Point.JPG 464 No Scope or Accessories Balance Point.JPG

Apparently, according to the 6mm BR description, one possibility for upward stringing could be how I position my rifle. If the rifle, dressed out as is, is on the rest, resting on the forward most balance point, the recoil will be muzzle up because it is basically butt heavy. If I reposition the rifle back to the balance point near the lever/trigger guard the rifle should recoil straight back and shots theoretically will not string. Looks like I have some work to do.
I love the smell of burning nitro in the morning.
 
Last edited:
Further to my post #104, after removing the fore end this a.m. it finally dawned on me the rear band screw was bent. It was difficult to remove and likewise to install, even when trying it without the forearm-wood. I am thinking of straightening it carefully, before trying the fit with the wood in place. Whether it is the cause of the stringing, I don't know. If it is not, I might play it safe and keep away from it with the hammer. What do you blokes think?

My brain went off at a tangent during all this and I thought of shooting without the fore end and magazine tube. I could shoot, gripping the reeiver, the back of my hand resting on the cradle. That sounds like an interesting experiment.
 
sullivan said:
On the subject of vertical stringing, my rifle does this too. Yesterday I gripped the fore end while leaning the back of my hand against the rest, while pulling the butt in to my shoulder. The butt rested on a rear bag as usual. Did no good at all; about 6" of vertical. On previous visits to the range, I had put the fore end in the cradle of the rest and left it untouched while firing. That has been my practice with all my bolt guns. One of those used to jump out of the cradle in recoil but groups were under MOA.
Click to expand...

I have a Savage bolt gun that shoots very good groups and it jumps and torques like a madman. It hates the bipod but the Gorilla Bag rest snuggles it right in and the rifle settles down a little, but it still jumps. I really do not have a comfortable set up so I may work on that too.

The bag is soft and the bipod is a hard rest and I know they are different styles of rifles but one would think that a soft bag like the Gorilla Bag would help with the stringing. I have a few things to try. But I am out of the ammo I was using so I will be loading today and going to the range tomorrow when there is a range boss there. It gets a bit scary shooting when he is absent and everyone wants to go freestyle...no rules.
 
sullivan said:
Further to my post #104, after removing the fore end this a.m. it finally dawned on me the rear band screw was bent. It was difficult to remove and likewise to install, even when trying it without the forearm-wood. I am thinking of straightening it carefully, before trying the fit with the wood in place. Whether it is the cause of the stringing, I don't know. If it is not, I might play it safe and keep away from it with the hammer. What do you blokes think?

My brain went off at a tangent during all this and I thought of shooting without the fore end and magazine tube. I could shoot, gripping the reeiver, the back of my hand resting on the cradle. That sounds like an interesting experiment.
Click to expand...

The original Henry or Sharps or whichever, was without a forend. I always wondered how the shooter held the rifle without frying his/her palm.
 
hombre243 said:
Rifles are not supposed to do this. I have never had one that did, so, because I am hearing about more than mine having accuracy problems, it just seems to me that I/we need to try to find out why. I am frustrated. The only advice I have got from Brand snobs is "you get what you pay for." But, I have no reason to believe a rifle that costs less than 20 bucks less than that snobs other brand name gun strings its shots just because of the cost. Right?

I will be trying everything I can think of. One thing I know for sure...the first day I shot it I had good groups after the barrel warmed up but had to slow down before it got too hot. The second tome I went out with it, it shot 2-3 good shots and heated up very quickly. The first day was low 40s out. The second time was high 60s. There was a big difference in how the rifle shot. But, the best group I shot was with plated bullets shooting at low velocities, guestimated to be around 1500-1600 fps. Low vel, low pressure, low heat, longer string. Those 6 shots were the first 6 shots in a longer string. I am thinking a full 10. But the rifle needed to be aimed high because I am sighted in for 100 yds, using 125 gr and 150 gr bullets. The 125sw shot an inch or an inch and a half lower than the 150s. The 150s, on the day I set the sights were shooting bulls. Those targets were posted in another thread, or in previous posts in this thread.

I had to find where to aim, about 4-5 inches higher than the little bull down at 6:00 so I could finally see how the bullets would group. the first 4 were below the 6:00 spot. When I hit the first bullseye I aimed at the same spot and got a 6 banger. Then I went home. Out of ammo.

I didn't buy the rifle to use heavy bullets that run just a bit faster than a 22. But, if that is what it comes down to it may be all I will get unless I send the gun in. I hate the idea of that. The other thing is that these are new guns and may need an extended break in. It does not make a lot of sense but it is possible. Stay tuned for later developments. Same place, same time, same channel.

One thing bugs me: On the 6mm BR site the gun guru there says there are many reasons for stringing. Some we have mentioned here. Other reasons have to do with mechanical parts of the rifle, like a cockeyed firing pin of all things. I still think it has to do with heat, but possibly stock and tube fit aggravated by heat. Possibly balance of the gun but now that you said you experimented with the placement i am switching gears a little. Have you ever shot a spring air pellet gun? They are a whole different breed of cat. I am wondering if this rifle has similar characteristics. It has to be fired pretty much offhand with very little constriction. I sure hope that is not the case. They call me Shaky Jake for a reason.

More later.
h

Looks like it is now later...

http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

http://www.realguns.com/articles/346.htm
Click to expand...


What I have been seeing is normal 150 grain and not so normal 125 grain bullets do not do so well in my rifle. The first day out I got good groups. Not many but at least enough to keep me interested. The next two times out I had trouble staying on paper. One thing I notices is that the higher the powder charge the fewer bullets hit the paper. I will be loading down now to see if that helps. In both good groups I shot the first trip to the range, the loads were at the bottom of the load data. Slower seems to be better. Both 125s and 150s did well on the first group each.

As velocity went up, so did group size.

Now I am finding articles that are saying this rifle (464) prefers the heavier 170 and 180 grain bullets. I did well with my Marlin with 150 gr bullets but I am wondering if that is because of the microgroove barrel. At any rate, next on the agenda is to get some heavier bullets. 170 and 180 grainers to start. They start slower and then slow down more. The rifle has the same twist rate as the Marlin but does not have Microgroove. BUT, 1/10" is a twist for heavier bullets. With the button rifling (not microgroove) it is possible this rifle is built for heavier bullets. I don't know.

While I am waiting for the heavier bullets to be delivered, which in this case is directly related to how much money I have this month and when I actually order them, I will load down the bullets I have on hand. I will load with regular powder for the 3030 but also will try to find a good load with Trail Boss. It fills a case much better than the others I am using, and lowering the powder charge a couple grains will leave a lot of space in the case. Not good for ignition or accuracy.

I am going to try to find a powder that fills the case better...maybe that will help. I am also going back to square one...stripping all the foofoo stuff off the rifle and installing a Skinner Ghost Ring.

If lowering the velocities and/or using a heavier bullet doesn't pull the holes together that is what will be the next thing to work on. After that, Lead bullets with gas checks.
 
sullivan said:
Further to my post #104, after removing the fore end this a.m. it finally dawned on me the rear band screw was bent. It was difficult to remove and likewise to install, even when trying it without the forearm-wood. I am thinking of straightening it carefully, before trying the fit with the wood in place. Whether it is the cause of the stringing, I don't know. If it is not, I might play it safe and keep away from it with the hammer. What do you blokes think?

My brain went off at a tangent during all this and I thought of shooting without the fore end and magazine tube. I could shoot, gripping the reeiver, the back of my hand resting on the cradle. That sounds like an interesting experiment.
Click to expand...

Shot off the rest last Tuesday without the mag tube and fore arm. Results were just as bad as before, however there is a complicating problem. That is, I am getting failures to fire. Whether that is the cause of the stringing I don't know but grease on the locking bolt #58 has entered the hole for the firing pin striker # 59. That stuff could be slowing down the lock time, maybe. I don't know for sure. It has been cleaned out and the striker moves freely, so no excuses there.
The new screw has arrived and over the last weekend a 0.010" piece of sheet brass was epoxied to the inside of the rear barrel band to take up the gap between it and the barrel. It fits snugly and everything is back together, although the front band is loose as it was originally. If the stringing stops I won't know what fixed it; the striker or the rear band.:confused: Here's hoping:)

ps stringing happened even after a primer change
 
sullivan said:
Shot off the rest last Tuesday without the mag tube and fore arm. Results were just as bad as before, however there is a complicating problem. That is, I am getting failures to fire. Whether that is the cause of the stringing I don't know but grease on the locking bolt #58 has entered the hole for the firing pin striker # 59. That stuff could be slowing down the lock time, maybe. I don't know for sure. It has been cleaned out and the striker moves freely, so no excuses there.
The new screw has arrived and over the last weekend a 0.010" piece of sheet brass was epoxied to the inside of the rear barrel band to take up the gap between it and the barrel. It fits snugly and everything is back together, although the front band is loose as it was originally. If the stringing stops I won't know what fixed it; the striker or the rear band.:confused: Here's hoping:)
Click to expand...

Here's hoping you fixed it. I am thinking about diving into my rifle also. The warranty won't do me any good because i refuse to spend any money on it for shipping. Unless Bud's will refund me, the gun stays here. But I am a bit more confident that heavier bullets will help some. I found some lower powder charge loads and I have powder they call for. So, back to the range I go. Hope yours finally works.

BTW what bullets are you using? Just curious. I am keeping all these notes.
 
hombre,
Bullets are 150 gn Sierra Round Nose. Previously used Winchester 150 gn FN, reloads. Hornady factory made 160 gn gummy tips shot well for say, 6 shots then started climbing. Tried them again a week later and they still strung out.
 
sullivan said:
hombre,
Bullets are 150 gn Sierra Round Nose. Previously used Winchester 150 gn FN, reloads. Hornady factory made 160 gn gummy tips shot well for say, 6 shots then started climbing. Tried them again a week later and they still strung out.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sully,
I am going to the 170 and 180 grain. With the 125 and 150 I will be loading down to 2000 fps and maybe to 1900 fps. If they don't fly at hi velocity maybe they will work at lower speeds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top