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Mossberg 500 vs AR for SHTF!

joshmike1487 said:
How much would a backpack weigh with 1200 rounds loaded into it?
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Estimated weight of 1200 rounds of 00 buckshot would be roughly 110 lb.

However it looks like the post you quoted referenced 1-200 rounds which would be in the ballpark of between 9 lb per 100 rounds, so 18 lb for 200. That's using an average weight of roughly 1.5 oz per shell of 12ga 2-3/4 00 buck, but of course that'll vary by composition, manufacturer, etc.

Compare that to .223/5.56 (55gr) with an estimated average weight of .40 oz per round. That will yield a net of 2.5 lb per 100 rounds. That'd be about 5 lb for 200 rounds and, just for the sake comparison, would equate to roughly 30 lb for 1200 rounds.

Just throwing it out there, the average .22lr round weighs roughly .11 oz. That's .68 lb per 100, so roughly 1.4 lb for 200, and 8.3 lb for 1200 rounds...
 
I would have to stick with my AR. There are too many advantages to the AR such as distance, time to reload, round capacity, and (If properly equipped) silence. However, if the SHTF, I hope to have my 930 SPX, M&P15 MOR OR, M&P40, and the STI 1911 in 40S&W with me and my family in addition to our BOB's. Carrying the ammo is a concern.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. What I'm concluding is it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. My 500 would serve me best if I stayed put defending at CQ, and an AR would serve best for being on the move defending at both close and further distances. New Jersey laws regarding firearms are a shame, if the majority of people stood up together and said "No!" to the politicians, they'd be scrambling to win our votes instead of the panzy soccer mom gun grabbers.
 
joshmike1487 said:
How much would a backpack weigh with 1200 rounds loaded into it?
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Trying to carry 1-200 rds isn't too tough on its own or just with your gun.

Like was mentioned earlier about using bandoliers and spreading the load over your body, that would be the best way to carry the extra ammo, IMO. Rather than a big lump in your pack. And, if you had more ammo available you'd likely be tempted to try to carry more. Which may not be the best idea if you are trying to stay mobile while on foot.

However, as we are discussing SHTF......having done some backpacking myself, we often over-estimate what we can carry. Over a long walk or hike or climb...don't plan on trying to carry more than about 50lbs, especially if you're not conditioned to it. 50lbs is for an average size, adult male who is in average to above average condition. Don't forget all the other necessities competing for space in your pack!!

You are likely able to carry more, but you will definitely be slowed down by it and you'll need to stop more often to rest. The steeper the terrain or obstacles to surmount the more difficult it becomes. My 2 cents.
 
As noted there is a significant limit to what you can carry out on your body, however there are options that you may not have thought of. One of the simplest for heavy loads is a rickshaw type carrier that you can make out of a couple bicycle wheels and a little wood and/or light metal - a car hood or trunk lid for example, or a sheet of roofing tin. If you have a large dog or a pack animal, they can carry or pull stuff also. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.
 
I'd also rather engage an enemy at 200 yards than at 30 any day. With multiple attackers, this is a definite advantage afforded by a good AR.
 
On my tour in afghanistan we used mules and 4 wheelers to carry our extra junk. Beats hauling a hundred or so extra pounds, even spread over a dozen people.
 
MikeD said:
A reliable .22lr makes a very capable SHTF weapon.
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Absolutely.

The thread seems focused on defense, but what about hunting? Let's use the scenario laid out so far. You're living on the go, having to worry about fighting off other people, and apparently carrying everything you own in a pack or even on a sled with no base camp. In this situation stalking big game will likely mean covering a lot of ground and into areas where, because you're being led by an animal, you will likely not have had time to plan an exit strategy ahead of time. You will not be able to carry all of your gear as you stalk, so this means leaving it behind in a hide of some sort. The more ground you cover, the more likely it will be for you to unintentionally cross paths with others intending to do you harm. This could land you in a defensive situation without the 100 -200 extra rounds of ammo you packed. Separated from your gear, your supplies are exposed and ripe for picking by anyone who comes along.

Even if you don't run into any bad guys and are able to take a deer, now you have added a significant amount of weight in meat to your already heavy load. Now that you have all this meat, how do you preserve it? In my mind, small game will be far more abundant and will require much less effort to take. Taking squirrel, rabbits, birds, etc. will keep you well fed without the added burden of packing or trying to preserve several extra pounds of meat. Not sure if anyone's ever shot small game with a .223 or with 00 buck but those who have, was there much left of the animal to eat? What about the sound signature? How far away can these shots be heard? To a would-be attacker, this could be like ringing a dinner bell. Parks service studies have shown that even bears and other predators have learned to follow the sound of gunshots to find a free meal.

In my mind, this is where a .22lr rifle shines in a survival situation. The number of rounds you can carry is hard to beat. It'll keep you fed without destroying your quarry and it's relatively quiet when compared to the report of a .223/556 rifle or 12ga shotgun. Contrary to the opinions of many, a .22lr rifle will serve as a suitable defensive weapon in a pinch. Is .22lr as suited for mounting a defense against multiple armed attackers as an AR-15 or a 12ga shotgun? Of course not. But let's be honest, no matter what caliber firearm you're packing, if you're alone in that situation to begin with then you're already screwed. Outside of hollywood, what are the odds of anyone realistically running into this defensive scenario? I would much rather focus on the means of staying alive when I don't have to fight off groups of armed bandits...
 
LAZY EYED SNIPER said:
Absolutely.

The thread seems focused on defense, but what about hunting?
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I'll add, in addition to hunting w/.22 , a series of traps properly baited for the small critters in the area will do your meat gathering for you. And make even less noise. No need to restrict yourself to being a one trick pony. And if there's fish, a net or trot line will get some more protein. Downside is somebody else stumbling across the stuff and you need to check them every couple days.
 
Great point Gunny.

Trapping is a valuable skill. Fishing is much easier. Anybody with a bit of string, some sort of hook, and insects or worms/grubs for bait can catch several pounds of bluegill in a matter of minutes. Good eat'n too...
 
Just FWIW, you can use treble hooks and metal bailing wire or electric fence wire and set baited trot lines on dry land too ;)
 
John A. said:
Just FWIW, you can use treble hooks and metal bailing wire or electric fence wire and set baited trot lines on dry land too ;)
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Yep. Success at any of this depends in large part on what you know about where you're at. And not being too picky about what's edible. ;)
 
I think this thread may also speak to each of our individual SHTF philosophies. In a SHTF situation, I guess my plan is actually more about choosing my way to die rather than selecting a plan for long term survival. I do not plan to bugout, at all. I'm gonna die right here. Maybe much sooner than many of you, but it's my choice. That said, how much ammunition I can haul is a very moot point. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Take as many of the zombies as you can with you, Tom!!
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GunnyGene said:
Yep. Success at any of this depends in large part on what you know about where you're at. And not being too picky about what's edible. ;)
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It's not always about food. Sometimes furbearers could be the difference between freezing to death or not.

Though, if it's that bad, meat is meat. Just pretend it's chicken.

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