how else does a water monkey swing?... wait I asked that to Oli... don't answer that.
Mossberg 500 vs AR for SHTF!
- Thread starter Mack500
- Start date
Excellent comment Mike.
No assumptions here. If the world went sideways before I click post on this reply my gear is five floors down and 25yd out. Only reason it's not closer than that is 'cause I work in a federal building and they take their no guns policy very seriously.
When the $#!+ does start raining down, you can never count on being any more prepared than you are right now or at any given moment any other day...
XxLaloCuraxX
.410
True. If all hell is breaking loose, I'll stick to my AR. If I'm looking to shoot down some small game for food, I prefer to use the bird shot to increase my chances of scoring some food.
Ha! imagine? of course not. But if you had to run out of your house to relocate and didn't have a vehicle, would you rather leave the shotgun or AR behind or carry them all with you in some way? if I were caught in the street and had to use something for self defense, the shotgun gets dropped and I'll stick to my AR.
No you're right, I would definitely try to grab anything I could... to include the 590... but I wouldn't expect to use it while bugging out. But on the aspect of being prepared... just as Mike, I work in a Federal Building, so unless I decide to choose another career I have to make do with my EDC Spyderco (whichever flavor I decide that day), my Leatherman and a flashlight. Hopefully this will get me out to my Jeep.... that always carries a first aid kit the G19 or 1911 (and sometimes my entire arsenal
), blankets food and water.... then hightail it home, however I can make it.
This is what makes these scenarios frustrating. Here in the thread you have to pick one but in reality you would probably have both plus a sidearm and on and on and on. At work we even change these discussions by adding ammo and optics into the mix. It never gets settled but Friday afternoons go by quicker when we are out in the shop.
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I think to some degree, everyone.... no matter how prepared, would have an "oh crap" moment. I try to actually look at things realistically. I'm in a pretty good spot up here in Alaska as far as terrorist threats go. Not much infrastructure and people to damage (hell, the population is still sitting around 600k). Yeah sure it's the closest land mass to invade, put a pretty poor choice... ask the Japanese.
That said, we do rely heavily on groceries and goods that are shipped up from the lower 48. Yes, I could grow and hunt to get by... and I would, but it certainly wouldn't be easy. So if something happened in NYC or DC, I would have time to react, time to plan last minute contingencies.
Problem is... your scenario Mike, or John or Oli etc etc will be completely different, requiring different planning and reaction to a given situation. I try to do the best I can, and that's all anyone can ask of me... or you guys for that matter.
That said, we do rely heavily on groceries and goods that are shipped up from the lower 48. Yes, I could grow and hunt to get by... and I would, but it certainly wouldn't be easy. So if something happened in NYC or DC, I would have time to react, time to plan last minute contingencies.
Problem is... your scenario Mike, or John or Oli etc etc will be completely different, requiring different planning and reaction to a given situation. I try to do the best I can, and that's all anyone can ask of me... or you guys for that matter.
Given the proximity or work to my home my biggest concern isn't so much what I am carrying as much as how am I going to get home to my family. I was at work during the blackout several years ago. I was madness and I barely made it to my buddies house half way to mine without running out or gas. It took several (i.e. 6+)hours to make it that 30 miles.
You are in a bettor position to sustain yourself through hunting AK. Less people means there will be less competition for the resources you have and that is a good thing.
While it's good to imagine we will have out choice of gun ammo etc, the reality is that we may be caught completely exposed and away from our primary stash when it actually hits. What if you ate traveling for work, out of the country, etc.? Just things to think about in the overall scope of crap that can happen. LOL
but back on topic...
I love my shotguns but an AR is faster to load, holds more rounds and I can carry a lot more rounds. It's effective for close and long range. In pistol form it is easily concealable (legally where I am I might add). It's also easier to shoot one handed and less recoil means that if I am injured I can probably shoot it more effectively than a high recoiling, manually operated pump gun or a limited capacity semi (and yes I consider 9 rounds limited capacity in this situation.)
Overall I think being even semi proficient in many types of arms is key you never know you may have to drop your beloved gun and grab whatever is laying close and run just to keep in the fight and survive.
I tend to look at things from a very practical standpoint and what's going to get me the most bang for the buck and allow me to be the most versatile. My brain is the most important weapon I have and when it's gone there is no other I can pick up. It's kept me alive this long and I live in the FBI's most violent city in America two years running. LOL <facepalm> <cry>.....
Hey, SHTF was in the title
You make a point I didn't think about at all. In the past month I've been to 5 different villages around South East AK... of of which were accessed by float plane or 4 seater Pipers. In any case, I would be at least 40miles from home... with no roads or any infrastructure in between. I'd be SOL. I do carry some survival gear with me when we make these trips, but nothing in the way of hard core long term.
XxLaloCuraxX
.410
So yeah, in a SHTF scenario where I had to pick only one firearm to grab and go, I'd choose my AR over my shotgun. But if I had to choose between my AR and AK, hmmm... I don't know...
Hey, SHTF was in the title
You make a point I didn't think about at all. In the past month I've been to 5 different villages around South East AK... of of which were accessed by float plane or 4 seater Pipers. In any case, I would be at least 40miles from home... with no roads or any infrastructure in between. I'd be SOL. I do carry some survival gear with me when we make these trips, but nothing in the way of hard core long term.
You may want to set up some hidden food/ammo, etc. caches if you travel there a lot. ;-D
I have a lot of infrastructure between work and home, too much actually. I know all of the side/back routes but none are really hidden, secure, just too many populated areas I would have to deal with. I'm just an average guy with a little extended firearms training. I have no delusions about not being able to fight my way through 60 miles of people scared for their lives or out to snipe anything that moves. Rambo I am not, but there is a Holiday Inn Express nearby LOL I'd feel safer in your situation.
First and foremost, we have to look at our own individual circumstances. What do we have right now. Where do we live right now and what are the circumstances under which we live right now. Your choices may not be mine because your circumstances are not mine. No one choice works for all. I have access to an AR though would it make sense for me? Not really. I reside in Baltimore City. A city which right now is over run by four major gangs and numerous 2nd and 3rd tier drug operations. The socio-dynamics aside, the desperation and frustration levels are growing daily. The Baltimore City Police catch the blame for things which they cannot control. I reside in a large corner office/apartment on the 8th floor of a 10 story building. Currently, there is a Mossberg 500A with a 20" ported barrel and a 7 round magazine tube as my first line of defense with a Redfield Counterstrike Optic on a rail with flipdown Troy Industries rail mounted ghost rings. Six round Mesa Tactical Sidesaddle with an extra two rounds mounted horizontally on the right behind the ejection port. Slugs up front with 00 Buck on the Sidesaddle. There is only one way in and out of my apartment. I know exactly how my shotgun is going to pattern and at what distances it will open up. Since all of my Mossbergs have our Shoten Armory Extended Slide Release Lever, I can flip rounds very quickly. I use Wolff Springs exclusively with 3T Tactical stainless steel follower. This is not a plug. It is a fact. I have an 870 which appears very basic on its face but is extremely fast and 100% reliable. I am in a much better position staying just where I am as opposed to bugging out. THIS is where my food is. My vantage points. My cover and concealment. I also maintain a Mossberg 500 built up as a countersniper. LPA trigger with a fluted and ported 24" rifled slug barrel on it with a Redfield Sniper Scope. Harris Bipod and a Mesa Tactical Six Round Sidesaddle. I have documented proof it will print five round 3.5" groups at 300 yards with Hornady SST 300 grain Sabot Slugs. In an urban environment, I'm more than covered. However, back to the original question. for my circumstances and needs, the Mossberg 500 gets the nod.
that's the key, no one size fits all ......and so much more could go into the unknowns.
Would it be defending against "citizens" looking to strong arm as much as they can?, would it be an actual foreign military invasion, domestic take over.
For instance one of my shooting partners and I were talking, this guy is carrier Marine, silver star, wounded warrior.....knows his stuff. He was telling me about SPR's reliably doing the job with 77gr HPBT's at 1200 yards in the hands of exceptional shooters. I have no doubt but that is against a force that wears rags, no head protection, no real tactics other than just point and unload hoping to get lucky......would the 77gr HPBT be as effective against a modern military solder who employs actual battle tactics, with protective gear at 1200 yards, probably not.
If I were waiting to defend against some thug looking for whatever then I would have no qualms with most anything that makes holes in something. If you were a party of patriotic insurgents trying to resist against people with body armor and helmets I am probably going with something that can shoot a steel core or tipped bullet......Bet it would be a bad feeling to see a guy shake off 00 Buck and slugs as they splattered against ceramic plate, something I hope we never see on our soil.....
KeithTexas
.410
For up close, DEFENSIVE purposes, protecting my family or property, or for killing game - whether deer (which seem to be in significant abundance) or small game for food - I would without question go with the shotgun. Several old school walnut and blued 500As (5+1) with mucho birdshot and buckshot and slugs stocked away. Bead sights, polymer trigger groups. The only thing(s) that are not stock are the upgraded steel Promag safeties.
I think an invasion scenario is unlikely, a martial law situation more likely, and a natural disaster, terroristic act, or economic collapse most likely of all.
I will likely get an AR or an AK this holiday season, but I can't imagine wanting or needing to [offensively] shoot another American - who is not posing an immediate threat - from a distance with a rifle - regardless of how bad the situation is.
My goals would be to protect and to serve and to provide for.
I think an invasion scenario is unlikely, a martial law situation more likely, and a natural disaster, terroristic act, or economic collapse most likely of all.
I will likely get an AR or an AK this holiday season, but I can't imagine wanting or needing to [offensively] shoot another American - who is not posing an immediate threat - from a distance with a rifle - regardless of how bad the situation is.
My goals would be to protect and to serve and to provide for.
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Tater
.410
GO to your local hardware store and get some rat traps (not mouse, rat) and bait them with peanut butter. You will have more squirrels than you can eat.
I can't imagine anyone that would want to shoot someone else that isn't a threat. That doesn't fit my personal criteria of defense.
KeithTexas
.410
Good idea on the rat traps for squirrels tater !! And peanut butter is a great prep food for people too.
John, agree with you 100% on the basic definition of 'self/home defense'.
I can see the benefits of an AR or AK for longer range hunting of dear, hogs, etc., as well as the benefit of more ammunition and lower recoil for other members of the family. Would be a good second or third firearm option.
But comments on other boards around the "single best SHTF weapon" seem to imply that at least part of the reason folks may prefer an AR or AK is because they envision hostile (gun) encounters with other humans at ranges greater than 100 yards. Not sure about that.
John, agree with you 100% on the basic definition of 'self/home defense'.
I can see the benefits of an AR or AK for longer range hunting of dear, hogs, etc., as well as the benefit of more ammunition and lower recoil for other members of the family. Would be a good second or third firearm option.
But comments on other boards around the "single best SHTF weapon" seem to imply that at least part of the reason folks may prefer an AR or AK is because they envision hostile (gun) encounters with other humans at ranges greater than 100 yards. Not sure about that.
Much of what I think people envision to be SHTF is either paranoia, or their deepest and darkest fears and one that I think is often unrealistic.
It's the fear of the unknown.
AR's and AK's make really good weapons. No dispute from me there. But "perfect" or "best" could be debated until the sun burns out.
It's the fear of the unknown.
AR's and AK's make really good weapons. No dispute from me there. But "perfect" or "best" could be debated until the sun burns out.
KeithTexas
.410
I agree with you John. Our best asset and greatest 'weapon' is between our ears.
Think rationally and realistically. Fear and paranoia result in poor decisions.
I liked what I read about fear on another board:
When asked "why do you have so many different types of guns? What are you afraid of?
The old man replied "[now..] not a damn thing"..
Think rationally and realistically. Fear and paranoia result in poor decisions.
I liked what I read about fear on another board:
When asked "why do you have so many different types of guns? What are you afraid of?
The old man replied "[now..] not a damn thing"..
what's between your ears is garbage if you haven't been properly training yourself to deal with adversity, thinking outside the box, and pressure tested what you have learned.
I know a few people who have a lot of firearms and the safest thing on the range is the target they are aiming at.