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Short Barreled Shotgun-The 500SBS

aksavanaman

aksavanaman

Work In Progress...
Supporter
"Philanthropist"
So, I've been pondering over this for a while now and I think I've decided... I want a short barreled shotgun, or SBS for short. What's my reason? Would it be more practical for Home defense than the 590... doubt it. Would it be easier to carry for brown bear defense...... nope, could just go with the single barrel and bear spray. So then AK...what do you need a SBS for??? BECAUSE I CAN :D Really guys, I have no practical use for it, but i've got an itch to do it (and I guess the $200 for the tax stamp).

I would most likely keep it on a budget and go with a simple 500, 5 shot model... probably the 18.5" security barrel, and I'd chop her down to just past the shot tube lug, which by my guestimation would be around a 14" barrel. I've done some reading and the process to obtain the ATF stamp really isn't to complicated. I'm gonna go bring the forms to our Police Chief in town and see how complicated it would be to get is signatures on the forms... after that it's just send it in and wait a while.

Now, I know many of you will roll your eyes and skip reading the above disclaimer why I'd go through the trouble, but if It's as easy as I've read about... I'm doin it! Plus you guys get some eye candy :D Question is which 500 to turn into a sbs? Should I go all the way and find a 3 shot model hunter and go really short? We're still in the pre-stages here, I'm not 100% set on this, but if i can find a nice used 500 and do all the modifications myself...why not right :lol:
 
Hopefully your chief LEO will actually sign off on it. If your local city chief will not you can also try your county sheriff.

Remember they don't have to sign. If that is the case then you need to consider the trust route. IMO that is the better option anyhow as you don't need a sign off and the trust is registered to the NFA item, not the individual. Drawn up right it will be alot easier for your loved ones to take ownership of your SBS should something happen to you at some point. Gun trusts are an important part of estate planning should you choose to own items like this. Don't use a computer program like Quicken willmaker for this either. Find a legitimate gun trust lawyer to draw one up for you.

Something to think about. Sure it costs a lil more money to have a proper gun trust drawn up but once you join the stamp collector club you will probably want to collect a few more. Might be a hassle to get the sign off in future purchases. If you already know one will sign right now good for you. What if they change their tune later on? Some folks have had a sign off only to return and be denied later. Even if you got signed off remember folks retire, don't get relected etc... and the replacement might not sign off either. Alot of us just flat out don't have the sign off option available period which is sad honestly but a reality. The trust lets you purchase NFA items at will with or without any chief's or sheriff's approval.

YMMV as usual.
 
I haven't heard of a gun trust, but sounds like a better option. I mean, living in AK, being a Coastie and holding a Secret Security clearance, I think I'm a pretty low risk, so I don't think the signature would be an issue, but the trust might actually work better since I'm not guaranteed to always live here being in the Military. Off to do some research...
 
Yea I would read up carefully, ask alot of questions etc...........

Owning an NFA item is a whole new ball of wax. If you plan to transport it from state to state you are supposed to notify the feds etc.....

IMO its not worth the hassles involved but each to his own. For 4 inches more you have a firearm you can pretty much take anywhere legally within all 50 states and leave with whomever for safe keeping should you have to leave the country. Lose 4 inches and now you have an item that you must very carefully consider what to do with if you have to leave the country for an extended period of time or move around with all the time.

Thats where the beauty of a trust factors in. As long as you have alternative folks listed on the trust like a wife, brother etc.... folks you can trust with your NFA stuff while you are away it can be kept there instead and they are able to speak to it. Just leaving it with your brother if its registered to you and you alone would be a trip to club fed if they found out. Forget your DOD status with clearances and all that. While that might factor in to the case they build against you if they decide to go full tilt after you, nice knowing ya. Not worth it IMHO for 4 lousy inches. YMMV. But hell, if you want to do it, go for it. Folks need to exercise any and all 2A rights while we still can before someone decides to try and strip us all of them. Just know what you are getting into with the NFA game.

Fortunately I know folks with cool toys like that so I don't have to have that headache. A friend of mine utilizes Sean Cody in Houston. He is a fantastic lawyer that deals with that type of stuff. I'd talk to him or someone else that can guide you in your specific situation. Everyone is different and why everyone should get a professional trust drawn up instead of just trying to do a generic one with home software.

http://www.texasnfatrust.com/

Best of luck.
J
 
I have been pondering the same things but as an H&R Pardner cut down to 14 or 12 inches and using those Aguila Minishells :D LES is in the process or completed the process of buying a 14" barrel for his 590... he could be of assistance and answer some questions for you I am sure.
 
Dude, I have 5 title II weapons. Paperwork isnt' much of a problem as long as the local police chief isn't a pecker head.

You will need to do a couple of things.

2 form 1's, two 2x2 passport photos, 2 sets of fd258 fingerprint cards, and two Certificate of compliance papers.

The Cert. of Compliance forms are more or less a paper you sign that says you are who you say you are.

You can download everything from the ATF website, except the fingerprint cards, which are free if you order them from the ATF. You can't just use any fingerprint card. It has to be the fd-258

You will need to get the local leo to sign the back of the forms stating they are legal in AK.

You will need to send them a check for $200 tax, and you will have to have the receiver engraved with your name, city, state.
 
John A. said:
Dude, I have 5 title II weapons. Paperwork isnt' much of a problem as long as the local police chief isn't a pecker head.

You will need to do a couple of things.

2 form 1's, two 2x2 passport photos, 2 sets of fd258 fingerprint cards, and two Certificate of compliance papers.

The Cert. of Compliance forms are more or less a paper you sign that says you are who you say you are.

You can download everything from the ATF website, except the fingerprint cards, which are free if you order them from the ATF. You can't just use any fingerprint card. It has to be the fd-258

You will need to get the local leo to sign the back of the forms stating they are legal in AK.

You will need to send them a check for $200 tax, and you will have to have the receiver engraved with your name, city, state.
Click to expand...

Can't just be the barrel huh? I was thinking if I do it all myself I'll just stamp it... We don't have a gun smith on the island.
 
aksavanaman said:
?Would it be more practical for Home defense than the 590... doubt it. Would it be easier to carry for brown bear defense...... nope, could just go with the single barrel and bear spray. So then AK...what do you need a SBS for??? BECAUSE I CAN
Click to expand...

Sweet ! I can think of so many good reasons for one. Shotguns are so useful and handy, and I think shortening them up makes them all that much more handy.......if you get it threaded for chokes it would still be good for killing small game and birds....would make it a versatile little survival gun
 
Lol, I love that no one has said "You're an idiot...why waste your money". I guess I'm on the right forum :D

Well, I guess I might as well get the paper work started... finding a 500 to modify should be the easy part! I did a little (lol 10min worth) of research on the firearms trust route, while definitely the more permanent and transferable alternative, I think I'm gonna try our LEO chief first... and can even roll over there in uniform on Monday.
 
You're an idiot.

Why waste your money?
 
:lol: :lol:

Is it going to be legal to do your own stamping/engraving? I wonder if you will HAVE to have it professionally done
 
The ATF has clear guidelines for the engraving. I think its at a min .003 inch depth. Again, not 100 percent sure, do your own homework. As long as you did it yourself in accordance to the guidelines no problem. Sounds like you will most likely have to farm that out to a proper engraver though. Bound to be someone in AK that can handle that for you.

But yea, I never said you were an idiot for doing this. By all means, if you want the barrel that short and have the cash go for it. Easy to fill in a form 1 and once approved bust out that hack saw and be done with it. Just get it engraved correctly which might or might not be a hiccup in your turn around time on the project. With the panic mode these days alot of shops are backlogged so if you have to send it somewhere it might be a while getting it back in hand.

Also most folks agree, get it engraved before your stamp comes back. Once that stamp is in the mail its already effectively a title 2 weapon and needs to be treated as such. Although it isn't illegal to leave your NFA item with a licensed gunsmith for repair etc... after its actually on the books as NFA I think they actually do require it to be engraved right away. Be safe and have it good to go the day that stamp arrives in the mailbox.

Again, best of luck and post up pics when its a done deal.
 
No No, I only said the idiot thing to be funny. You know usually you get traditionalist who say "why do you need anything other than a 28" barrel and 3 shots...let god take care of the rest". I definitely appreciate all the info!
 
I hope your LEO is sensible and signs off willingly. As far as I know AK is still a gun friendly state so you probably won't have much to worry about. Not to dive into too much politics here but the current sitting sheriff in Bexar county Texas where I live is so anti gun its amazing. Yet this woman has an entire force of well armed deputies and detention guards at her disposal. Its sickening. When I voted she happened to be outside the polling site. When she approached me to ask for my vote I clearly asked her opinion of signing off on NFA type stuff. The response solidified my vote for the incumbent who unfortunately got voted out by the idiots of this county I live in. Grrrrrr

Rant off now.
 
jgwills said:
I hope your LEO is sensible and signs off willingly. As far as I know AK is still a gun friendly state so you probably won't have much to worry about.
Click to expand...

I haven't met to many folks with NFA weapons around here, not that it's an inclination of our LEO's stance on the matter, probably more the traditional folk you know. Kodiak's pretty big on hunting and fishing, so most of the firearm related stuff is geared toward that market. But... there's a guy here on base who has his Class III FFL and I'm sure a quick email should give me a good deal of information on Kodiak and NFA weapons.
 
Yeah, I recommend contacting the local C3 FFL. He might save you some leg work.

Also, just to clear up the water, the engraving requirements are minimum 1/16" letters and .003 deep.

You CAN engrave it on the barrel, since many shotguns have some of the required markings on the barrel, but it is generally more accepted to have it engraved on the receiver since that's where the serial number is on a mossberg 500, so you would really want to try to keep all the "important" engraving on the same piece.

Besides, we all know how easy it is to remove or exchange a barrel.

And since it would still be an NFA registered weapon regardless of what barrel you had on it at any given time, wouldn't cause any problems if you had it on the receiver and were to install a 28" slug barrel on it for big bear hunting for the weekend or something. (I hope you see what I'm trying to say here).

Besides, the 500 receiver is made of aluminum, is softer than a barrel, and generally easier to engrave than a barrel too.

There are several companies like Orion Arms who engrave firearms nationally if you can't find someone local. But even a local sports/trophy shop, or taxidermy shop may be able to do it since they often engrave nameplates and things for animal mounts.

Just throwing out some ideas.
 
Cool John. I only remembered the depth but couldn't remember the width of the letters. Personally I kinda of don't like the look of a freshly engraved receiver with exposed bare metal. Get somone to bead blast the original finish off first, engrave and then have it finished in the color of your choice. Why not truthfully make it your own. How about Hot Pink LOL.

My bud who I mentioned has alot of NFA crap has all his AR lowers refinished after engraving so it looks totally legit as it if were from the factory that way. Just something to think about. Just be glad there isn't a shotgun suppressor to slap on there. Most of the SBR guys wind up replacing that lost barrel length with a can so I've been told an SBR usually winds up leading to one of those too. It sounds like John is also evidence of once you have one stamp you will want more.

Hell, I'll throw it out there then. Super Shorty ;) Transfers on a $5 AOW tax. If your CLEO signs off on this initially go fetch one of those too hehe. You know you will want something even shorter next go around.

Good call on visiting a known Class III shop there in AK. They will know for sure which CLEOs sign off or not usually and if there are folks sol on that front. In those cases the class III sellers usually can assist in getting you setup with the trust then. Also they might be able to engrave for you as well so it could be a one stop shop for you.

For the OP, I think you are well on your way to getting in on that stamp collectors club. Have fun and be safe out there.

Cheers
J
 
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